New Rifle.

[martin_b]

Hi all.

I should soon be picking up a new rifle, (my first ever brand new full bore)

My question is do I have to run in the barrel for XXX shots first or can I start load development immediately? 

[Popsbengo]

that's opened a can of worms!  😁

[Big Al]

Your going to get different answers here based on both different peoples experience and also the level of accuracy you/they are looking for.

Barrels definitely speed up during the first 100-150 rounds, typically by 50-120fps and a load that was developed on a fresh barrel almost always wont be as good at 200 rounds. You really need to monitor and make small adjustments becasue the speed and in turn barrel harmonics will have changed. This isnt my opinion, its fact based on the observations of lots of high level shooters all over the world. I chrono my own guns and see it every time.

In terms of speeding up Ive seen this occur with barrels of all different quality and very much including the best match grade barrels money can buy.

If you were shooting 1000yd benchrest you would be daft to develop a load on a new barrel over say 40-60 rounds and then call it good for the rest of the season, on the other hand if its a 200yd fox gun you might just get away with it until the batch of bullets or powder you have has gone. Any competent reloader who is interested in achieving the best they can should monitor a load at different times including when changing to a new batch of the same bullets and/or powder.

I tell customers the same thing but then tailor the real world advice to suit the type of rifle and its application. 

If your doing high end or competition level load development the at least fire one box of new brass before you start thinking about doing a load. If its a gun used for lower levels of accuracy then keep an eye on your groups up to the first 200 rounds after you have developed a load.

Bear in mind some people dont have chronos while others cant shoot or reload well enough to see what Im telling you.

My observations here are based solely on accuracy, whether or not running in your barrel will make it last longer is a whole uglier can of worms that in all honesty I doubt anyone in the UK could answer definitively.

[Big Al]

Instead of taking my word for it why not go out and try this from a fresh barrel and see what you find for yourself?

Even if you dont have a chrono you should see the results at the target assuming your shooting is good/consistent enough.

[martin_b]

53 minutes ago, Popsbengo said:

that's opened a can of worms!  😁

Sorry, just trying to save a bit of money, 300PRC ammo isnt cheap produced by any manafacturing method. :-)

[RobinC]

Very few serious match target shooters would not run in a new barrel, the NRA run in their rental barrels, most barrel manufacturers recommend running in a new barrel, and most serious match target rifle manufacturers also.

Its a simple process, my process is fairly standard, in your case but a box of factory ammo, I do it on the zero at Bisley. Let the range office now that you will be doing it, you can also zero at the same time

Process, shoot one round, clean, shoot 3 rounds, clean, shoot 5 rounds clean, shoot 10 rounds clean. Job done!

I have done it with dozens of barrels, it settles the barrel, ensures full life (maybe!!) and you will know you have done all you can. 

PS, The wife and I have shot at top level, and internationally.

Have Fun

Robin

[Roy W]

I suppose it depends who you listen to

Gale McMillan's View

 

[Andrew]

Tikka/Sako say it isn't necessary with their rifles. ~Andrew

[BlueBoy69]

I frankly think it's mostly a load of old cobblers with high-quality produced barrels, but each to their own. And hey, if you want to put x amount of rounds through the barrel and increase the initial wear on it, that is quite up to you.

Until I see scientifically-collected data showing the difference in accuracy from a collection of the same make and initial quality barrels that are then tested after they have and haven't been broken in, I think most of this barrel break-in stuff is just hearsay and voodoo magic.

I'd also like to see the wear and the heating profile per round or from a series of rounds and it's effect on the accuracy of broken-in and non broken-in barrels.

Tests to collect this data would have to be conducted using a test stand and fired down a temperature controlled tunnel range. The ammo temperature controlled too, with the gun remotely fired. This to minimise human and environmental error factors.

Oh, and correct me if this has been done already!

I do know the US Army (and partners) were doing a lot of fundamental research on small arms recently. With tests on how primers, charge fills, their geometry and many other factors affect accuracy and consistency of small arms. Unfortunately much of this data is classified.

[Big Al]

Very quickly this thread has split into two aspects, one of load development, the other of barrel life. Looking at your initial question you dont really specify which aspect interests you?

You really wont find any useful data on whether or not running a barrel in increases barrel life, my own thinking is it wont, running in is part of the wear process and will reduce a barrels lifespan, depending on the caliber that can be a high or relatively low percentage of the barrels life. Bear in mind though many shooters significantly reduce their barrels accurate lifespan by simple neglect and poor maintenance.

If by running in you mean to preparing your barrel ready for load development that will ensure giving you the best chance to develop a load that will maintain its accuracy and consistency going forward then thats another thing entirely to which Ive given my thoughts.

Bear in mind research based around any military application doesnt really involve accuracy, kills on man sized targets even at 1000yds isnt what we consider accurate.

 

 

[Big Al]

18 hours ago, martin_b said:

Hi all.

I should soon be picking up a new rifle, (my first ever brand new full bore)

My question is do I have to run in the barrel for XXX shots first or can I start load development immediately? 

What exactly is your new rifle and its application going to be?

[Akeld]

I just follow the manufacturers or builders advice.

[Re-Pete]

The proof rounds will have taken care of most, if not all, of any swarf and machining burrs............

Pete

[martin_b]

New rifle is a Bergara 300PRC, which is to shoot  from 900 yards out to 1 mile and maybe longer.

[20series]

Personally I do the shoot 1 and clean, shoot 3 and clean, 5 and clean, 10 and clean process. Might not be necessary but it can't do any harm.

Alan

[One on top of two]

All of the rifles I own that are expensive enough for me to worry about are all Lapped barrels . Just cleaned before first shot  then just crack on . 
 

[furrybean]

I shoot it! 
For the first new hundred rounds I use a known good load and then tweak once I know it’s not going to speed up any more. You can’t get your final load at the start of a barrel but I don’t shoot one clean one etc. 

[Deserttech Europe]

What furry bean said.

 

[Re-Pete]

What furry bean said

Pete

[Richiew]

From accuracy international manual

[terryh]

Think this falls in with the ‘how do you clean your rifles?’  or any question starting ‘what’s the best…………..’ 😉😁

mirriad of approaches and dependent on the barrel ie factory or custom.

Go with your Smiths recommendation.

Hard to be fixed on rounds from new vs accuracy/ speed e.g. recently a UK shooter with around 30 rounds total down the barrel wins a 1 mile competition, so bugger all run in and load development in that scenario.

T

[Popsbengo]

6 hours ago, terryh said:

Hard to be fixed on rounds from new vs accuracy/ speed e.g. recently a UK shooter with around 30 rounds total down the barrel wins a 1 mile competition, so bugger all run in and load development in that scenario.

Thanks for a real-world example.   There's just so much cobblers spoken and pseudo-engineering peddled around and around in the shooting world.   I believe much of the folklore around barrel run-in has it's roots in fettling  crappy cheap rifles with rough-arse machining.  It's the same point with brass prep:  crappy cheap brass needs a lot of fettling,  top quality brass, hardly anything.

Top quality barrels with lapped rifling - will they really benefit from a brush and patch after one or two shots repeated a few times?  I've read so much contradictory 'advice' from 'experts' it's a joke.  Even barrel manufacturers don't agree.  How much of the advice is just giving the punter what they want to see?  And the cynic in me wonders if they may have an ulterior motive in encouraging extra use?

I had a look at a brand-new Savage in .338 a couple of years ago - the bore looked like a badly ploughed field with chatter marks all over it - I dare say a few rounds would knock the swarf out!  On the other hand my Truflite .338 was as smooth as a slippy weasel and shot tight groups out of the box - and it's not improved or declined over 600 rounds shooting out to the mile.

 

[terryh]

PbG,

If you want to delve into the World of 'cobblers' go look at the 22rf environment 😵

May years ago I used a NECO bore lapping kit which actually turned a standard Rem 700 barrel into something pretty good - but it required the barrel to be re-chambered and turned in a thread. This was relatively cheap as it was done in the US (lower costs and no proof etc) but not something I'd repeat.

So concur, some anecdotal info out there but a good barrel is just that from the get go.

T

[baldie]

I cannot believe grown men who will have owned all sorts of machinery, cannot grasp barrel break in.

I also cannot understand anyone who will willingly spend X amount of pounds on a new gun, be it a factory rifle, or a full blown custom, and not be prepared to spend a morning, running it in properly.

Dont listen to the idle sods who say its a waste of time, because they are talking out of their arse.

I will not guarantee any barrels accuracy, i've fitted, unless the customer follows my break in regime, which is..

5 x single rounds cleaning inbetween

5 x 3 rds, cleaning in-between.

2 x 5rds cleaning in-between.

Factory rifles will need more break in than a custom blank.

Barrels always speed up during the first 200 rounds.

Surely people are not that dense, as to not recognise the increasing speed is because the barrel is running in ? Are people so thick ?

I had a customer who put 200 rounds down an barrel, straight off, with poor results. It took me a day to get it cleaned properly, then it shot amazingly.

Barrels coming back from proof are lathered in copper, and literally glow orange. It takes an afternoon to remove it, and Bartlien blanks are the worst.

Subsequent shots show less copper, then less copper.........c'mon, even an idiot can see what is happening.

Microscopic pores in the bore, is what you are smoothing out, by shoot/clean. Fill them with initial copper without removal, and you will never get the best from it. If the barrel has reamer marks bad enough across the lands, then the reamer needs replacing.

[One on top of two]