Jump to content
UKV - The Place for Precision Rifle Enthusiasts

22 LR Average Group from your gun


Recommended Posts

Ronin,

I learnt to shoot on a friends 52D and when he was feeling in a good mood a Freeland stocked 52E - incredibly accurate rifles.

Not sure in the repeaters accuracy suffering, if you look at the results folks were achieving with stock MPR's prior to the advent of VooDoo's etc. some very good results being obtained.

The CZ's are very good accuracy wise for off the shelf rifles, might be something related to the hammer forged barrels i.e. the chambers in straight? The new MTR and LRP models seem to be about right? Also, from memory the Walther KKM target rifles were based on CZ actions?

Building a 'nice' 22rf repeater is definitely interesting, I'm leaning towards the Zermatt action (same as Baldie's build), VooDoo's good but the Zermatt has a few nice features. RimX and Ultimatum are in the mix but the Ultimatum comes with a 20" barrel with no chamber options so a bit limited IMHO.

22rf is sometime a bit neglected and ignored?

T

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 851
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

2 hours ago, Ronin said:

The sporting rifles appear to have average accuracy - by that I mean they group ok rather than single hole - if I can use Robins target as the “what to strive for goal”

 

Ive looked long and hard at 22 rimfire for myself to practice with and to conduct some vermin control and come to the conclusion that I do not need a repeater 

 

I’d rather have accuracy over mortar fire capability 

Having considered many repeaters and discounted because of known issues or less than adequate accuracy I located a Anchutz 1807 I plan to train with to provide cheap (ish) practice 

Once it arrives and I set it up I’ll put some groups as like many others I’d like to see how my rifles shoot over repeat groups not just one or two 

Had I been able to locate a Winchester 54 I’d have bought one of those 

 

Convert it to mag feed     ignore that just being silly  ...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My comment re sporter accuracy - wasn’t reflective of the targets I’ve seen here but observed from shooting some different manufacturers over the years 

 

I don’t see any real changes or improvements in design from the main stables and some newer releases come with issues (poor feed, poor ejection, poorly manufactured firing pins that fail, ill fitting bolt shrouds - one make ) so I’m cautious about buying in to a system that may have inherent  problems that are built into the design 

Hence opting for tried and tested and go my own way 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

....'poor ejection'....    yup, the Annie 64 action had this issue , they swapped to a cheap stamped ejector = failure to eject, 15 minutes with a file/stone = fixed. 😎

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just to put the cat amongst the pigeons, this target was shot recently in a 50 metre prone bipod based match in a National Level Competition at our club in Ireland. The Rifle is the MPR version of the new Anschutz 1761.  Off the shelf.  No, tuning, using SKC red box Rifle match ammo. I have tried this rifle and it is superb. Ergonomics, trigger, bolt action etc,.Nothing to improve. Compare this with a Voodoo, which uses a Center fire type receiver and must weigh a lot more.  

image.png.e763ea082890e69ccf2d0a0536246162.png

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have selected and attached photo of best 5 shot group at 50m with tikka t1x trying some eley action for first time. It may look good but only when i see the rest of the groups do I know what the accuracy is really like and in the conditions I just got lucky. I was also trying different sound moderators which will have an effect. Average group 13-15mm at 50m Tikka T1x with cheap ammunition. All shots should be included.

IMG_20200903_194048.jpg

IMG_20200903_194058.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, outlanda said:

I have selected and attached photo of best 5 shot group at 50m with tikka t1x trying some eley action for first time. It may look good but only when i see the rest of the groups do I know what the accuracy is really like and in the conditions I just got lucky. I was also trying different sound moderators which will have an effect. Average group 13-15mm at 50m Tikka T1x with cheap ammunition. All shots should be included.

IMG_20200903_194048.jpg

IMG_20200903_194058.jpg

Truth! 👍

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I shot 4 groups the other evening from 50yds with my cz452 and 42gr winnie subs

 

2 x 10 shot groups about 1 inch

1 x 5 shot group about 0.750 inch

The last 5 shot group was the size of my finger nail with one shot that went a bullets width low..

Very inconsistent..

I am very tempted to try some target ammo like RobinC used to see if the grouping is better..

Not sure they'd be any good for hunting though...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think wind is a massive player on outdoor .22lr ten shot groups - on a gusty day, trying to get 10 away in the same condition is quite a challenge.

I have in my head a 'wind equivalence' to 308 of about x5  - so even at 50m, tiny gusts pull groups apart.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes .22rf is not a good calibre for wind it is very susceptible, a good wind shot is either waiting, or adjusting all the time, with out flags, or tree's, or grass to indicate, and a lot of wind experience, it is very difficult to be sure what is you, and what is wind.

The other aspect is quality of aim. When we coach we always start with that, even with experienced shots who think they can aim, but do not take it to the precision they must to get consistent accurate shots. The biggest single fact is to look through the centre of the  rear sight, in most of your cases the centre of the scope.  Sound Simple? Oh no no, it takes a great degree of care, half a mm out with the head position and that is your flyer, and again most of you guys are using  sporting type stocks, so its not easy to be accurate.

With match rifles, we have a mass of adjusters to set the cheek piece, (pics of mine) not just OK, or good enough, but exactly to the Nth degree. Then the care in lowering the face to the sight is also critical, to ensure the eye is exactly centre in the rear sight, in your cases the scope. Some one as infuriatingly precise as my wife will lift and lower her head three or four times on every shot before she is satisfied her sight line is exactly correct.

Have Fun

Robin

Robin's KK500 011.JPG

Robin's KK500 012.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, RobinC said:

Yes .22rf is not a good calibre for wind it is very susceptible, a good wind shot is either waiting, or adjusting all the time, with out flags, or tree's, or grass to indicate, and a lot of wind experience, it is very difficult to be sure what is you, and what is wind.

The other aspect is quality of aim. When we coach we always start with that, even with experienced shots who think they can aim, but do not take it to the precision they must to get consistent accurate shots. The biggest single fact is to look through the centre of the  rear sight, in most of your cases the centre of the scope.  Sound Simple? Oh no no, it takes a great degree of care, half a mm out with the head position and that is your flyer, and again most of you guys are using  sporting type stocks, so its not easy to be accurate.

With match rifles, we have a mass of adjusters to set the cheek piece, (pics of mine) not just OK, or good enough, but exactly to the Nth degree. Then the care in lowering the face to the sight is also critical, to ensure the eye is exactly centre in the rear sight, in your cases the scope. Some one as infuriatingly precise as my wife will lift and lower her head three or four times on every shot before she is satisfied her sight line is exactly correct.

Have Fun

Robin

Robin's KK500 011.JPG

Robin's KK500 012.JPG

A fascinating insight to a different world of target shooting sports.  I'd like to add that a badly adjusted parallax adjustment on a scope has caused many a wayward shot.  Unfortunately perfect target focus and correct parallax isn't always the same point on many scopes.  The only scope I own that's spot-on is my S&B PM11.  My NF Comp is ever so slightly soft when dead on.  I'm yet to try a Delta in anger,  

I find the head-bob method of looking for relative movement of the aiming point and cross hairs works well enough.

I still meet people that think the ocular is used to focus the target!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Popsbengo said:

A fascinating insight to a different world of target shooting sports.  I'd like to add that a badly adjusted parallax adjustment on a scope has caused many a wayward shot.  Unfortunately perfect target focus and correct parallax isn't always the same point on many scopes.  The only scope I own that's spot-on is my S&B PM11.  My NF Comp is ever so slightly soft when dead on.  I'm yet to try a Delta in anger,  

I find the head-bob method of looking for relative movement of the aiming point and cross hairs works well enough.

I still meet people that think the ocular is used to focus the target!

Maybe not so different. I am always impressed by what we can all learn from the serious target disciplines; after all the fundamentals are the fundamentals. The challenges of shooting .22 rimfire and airguns are great for building up skills that can be applied elsewhere.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And just to lower the tone;  this thread is in my mind.   

Decided I wanted to give the BAR22 a proper go at 50m/54.7yds

Spent 30 mins looking for a 7/64 Allen key to take the eotech off..... eventually wondered if there was one in the box. Yes. And a replacement QD bolt🙄😂

Then put a sitting-in-cupboard low-quality scope on it. And decided it was time to go prone.

Results below.

CCI Subsonic Clean.

SK Standard Plus.

SK Rifle Match.

The CCI was a surprising disappointment, the sense of shot 'randomisation was quite apparent - and something I hadn't noticed with the eotech!

I then shot the standard plus - and was relieved  to get a consecutive  set of tgts rather more as I had expected!

Then the Rifle Match - and I think the Rifle Match tgts turned out to be something of a tribute to the way Bradders put his BAR22s together.

(Have to say, after I saw the first group go in to a tiny cluster,  I choked the 2nd group - so that group spread is entirely me- calmed down again for the third group!)

IMG_20200904_131822_226.thumb.jpg.e4836da0a30583053037440323d9c25d.jpg

20200904_131935.thumb.jpg.c9706902337fe58eb0fa41b75ef81b60.jpg

IMG_20200904_131840_314.thumb.jpg.f5e887dc1d8232c7ab1c46cfda2a193a.jpg

IMG_20200904_131751_453.thumb.jpg.68de3e105372a7aa57efe70c43d6aaf0.jpg

20200904_132009.jpg

Not too shabby!

20200904_140642.thumb.jpg.a725868ebaa2465a6aa0e222c68ed7bb.jpg20200904_140726.thumb.jpg.f56cd4cf1a99fd887c0339947d4adf81.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BD,

I'd load the mags by hand, don't use the auto loader if you're going for pure accuracy - it can deform the nose if you're too enthusiastic, 

Just sayin'  (look what it did to your middle group for instance! 😉)

T

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 certainly a great leveller and not to be discounted to return to to Iron our flaws in weapon hold / follow through / wind call 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/3/2020 at 2:27 AM, RobinC said:

 

.22rf, crude cases, primers spun into the rim, small volume of powder (bigger variables), very crude light lead bullet, bullet seating? Its just jammed in the case.  I'm surprised they are as accurate as they are!!

 

You know very little about how 22LR is produced.~Andrew

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I bought an Annie 1807 unseen a few weeks back (cheap as chips), it landed and put a Contessa rail and a Nikko Sterling 6-24 Targetmaster I had laying around on it

Alos fitted a rail to the UIT rail underneath so I can use it with a bipod (no advertising), no wicked Memes

I was anticipating adequate accuracy and am pleased.

Went and shot it for the first time today, warm up with some Win subs that ive had for 15 - 20 yrs..then moved on to SK Plus

55 Mtrs, slight wind, off bipod and a rear bag (no advertising names)

IMG-0463.jpg

IMG-0464.jpg

Left side  Win Subs - right side first five with the SK

IMG-0474.jpg

 

Subsequent 5 shot groups with SK

IMG-0473.jpg

IMG-0472.jpg

Last group shot was the .200"

 

Average of the five is .500"

 

Pretty good for first time out and a rifle thats older than a decent bottle of Scotch

 

Taught me a few things - trigger control and follow through essential with 22RF

 

Excellent fun and great practice

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice results for a blind buy rifle Ronin 😎 

Yes 22rf takes a bit of concentration, cannot do anything but help your other rifle shooting?

Stuck a higher mag scope onto the AR (usually wears an 1-8 for mini-rifle and practical ) to try some accuracy tests at 50 yards, indoor range so zip wind involved.

988496158_22rfAR.thumb.jpg.85b68e4558872c38cd837cbe0e45b084.jpg

Had a selection of 22rf ammo on hand. Fired 4 x 5 round groups and shot them at every breath i.e. not setting up for each shot. 4 groups to make sure the last ammo's lube was blown out (a bit)

All shot contiguous i.e. breath/shoot/breath/shoot, no pause or wiggling about between shots except for the mag change after each 2 x 5 round group. Though as it was an semi auto I'd shoot it that way 

350964226_tgt1.thumb.PNG.19ddfad78eaad72818c363b6c7fd7f8c.PNG
 

The CCI AR is a bit quicker and shoots high so aimed at 6 o'clock on the outer ring for the 3 x 5 round

 

890456336_tgt2.thumb.PNG.21e1c167a18a503762eacb1907d011ab.PNG

81835516_tgt3.PNG.8380696d694c2cd4f22b4f953221686f.PNG

All shot off bipod and rear bag.

Once I have a 22 bolt again I'll give it another go. 

Good fun indeed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tel - the AR, Midas and Tenex group well - though upper end spec and price its obvious that the better quality anmo has a huge effect on group size 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Andy,

The quality ammo does normally give smaller 'rounder' groups,

The CCI AR though is not the bottom end stuff (around £8/100) but quite reasonable mid range on price at £10.60/100 and the 2 groove barrel seems to like them. Only problem is they are well past sonic so even with a suppressor there is a good 'crack'

The Midas is a bit eye watering at £30/100 😱 and Tenex at £26/100 - think you'd save these for special occasions 😉

I'd try some R50 or Centre-X in your new toy just for grins.

T

ps - has anyone tried Lapua X-act yet, and I though Midas was ££

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

Northallerton NSAC shooting.jpg

RifleMags_200x100.jpg

dolphin button4 (200x100).jpg

CASEPREP_FINAL_YELLOW_hi_res__200_.jpg

rovicom200.jpg

IMG-20230320-WA0011.jpg

Lumensmini.png

CALTON MOOR RANGE (2) (200x135).jpg

bradley1 200.jpg

NVstore200.jpg

blackrifle.png

jr_firearms_200.gif

valkyrie 200.jpg

tab 200.jpg



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy