NRA investigated by charity commission?

[DaveT]

Just seen this on FB...fake news or another attack on shooting?

[One on top of two]

Is it anything to do with this ? I heard someone talking about it but thought it was someone just  talking out of his bum  

https://www.bisleyshooting.co.uk/nra-members/

[DaveT]

Don't think its connected.

What I read appeared to be from the charity commission.

[Moorlander]

Crap with the NRA has been going on for years , alleged corruption etc , its a real shame , it needs to be run by vetted former business people with a clean track record.

https://savebisley.com/nra-litigation/

[Roy W]

There are certain factions of the so called 'shooting media' , or shall we shall social media/self important/self promoting individuals who seek to undermine the NRA because of A, it's not their bag, B, they have personal axes to grind and C, there is no doubt some jealousy going on.

The Bisley shooting ground is a civil dispute over tenancy where the Landlord has given notice that the lease won't be renewed and the tenant claims that there was a nod and a wink agreement in the past which should be legally binding.

Likewise the previous 'Artist Club' dispute was a privately owned club/business paying a peppercorn rent of circa £9k per annum in leafy Surrey for the clubhouse and didn't feel they should have to pay any more. The tenuous past links to the SAS (now it is privately owned/run and nothing to do with the Artists Rifles) were milked to court support and favour.

Personally I don't think you'd be able to rent a single desk office in Surrey for £9k, so the NRA appeared to be within their rights to seek market value IMHO and the same applies to the clay grounds.

It's just that some people seem to think it is good ammo for their own agenda to undermine the NRA. 

The shooting community are their own worst enemies at times.

 

 

[Popsbengo]

1 hour ago, Roy W said:

There are certain factions of the so called 'shooting media' , or shall we shall social media/self important/self promoting individuals who seek to undermine the NRA because of A, it's not their bag, B, they have personal axes to grind and C, there is no doubt some jealousy going on.

The Bisley shooting ground is a civil dispute over tenancy where the Landlord has given notice that the lease won't be renewed and the tenant claims that there was a nod and a wink agreement in the past which should be legally binding.

Likewise the previous 'Artist Club' dispute was a privately owned club/business paying a peppercorn rent of circa £9k per annum in leafy Surrey for the clubhouse and didn't feel they should have to pay any more. The tenuous past links to the SAS (now it is privately owned/run and nothing to do with the Artists Rifles) were milked to court support and favour.

Personally I don't think you'd be able to rent a single desk office in Surrey for £9k, so the NRA appeared to be within their rights to seek market value IMHO and the same applies to the clay grounds.

It's just that some people seem to think it is good ammo for their own agenda to undermine the NRA. 

The shooting community are their own worst enemies at times.

 

 

well said Roy 👍

[Bangbangman]

5 hours ago, Roy W said:

There are certain factions of the so called 'shooting media' , or shall we shall social media/self important/self promoting individuals who seek to undermine the NRA because of A, it's not their bag, B, they have personal axes to grind and C, there is no doubt some jealousy going on.

The Bisley shooting ground is a civil dispute over tenancy where the Landlord has given notice that the lease won't be renewed and the tenant claims that there was a nod and a wink agreement in the past which should be legally binding.

Likewise the previous 'Artist Club' dispute was a privately owned club/business paying a peppercorn rent of circa £9k per annum in leafy Surrey for the clubhouse and didn't feel they should have to pay any more. The tenuous past links to the SAS (now it is privately owned/run and nothing to do with the Artists Rifles) were milked to court support and favour.

Personally I don't think you'd be able to rent a single desk office in Surrey for £9k, so the NRA appeared to be within their rights to seek market value IMHO and the same applies to the clay grounds.

It's just that some people seem to think it is good ammo for their own agenda to undermine the NRA. 

The shooting community are their own worst enemies at times.

 

 

 

 

Indeed. 

 

And now, perhaps as a result of all the noise, the Charities Comission (CC), are taking a close look at the NRA and whether it fulfils it’s stated charitable role. 

 

Charities are allowed to run businesses to raise funds for their charitable work. Some might be surprised that recreational shooting (and the rents, range fees etc at Bisley) may be the business that the NRA use to support their charitable role.

 

“So what is the NRAs charitable role?” I hear you ask.

 

I was slightly surprised when I found out.

 

“The charity’s purposes, set out in its governing document, fall under the promotion of the efficiency of the armed forces of the Crown, or of the efficiency of the police, fire and rescue services or ambulance services, which is a charitable purpose set out by Parliament in the Charities Act.”

 

Link to Gov document about this issue:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/charity-watchdog-monitoring-national-rifle-association-after-it-breached-rules-by-engaging-in-recreational-shooting/regulatory-compliance-case-national-rifle-association

 

Link to NRA response:

 

[John MH]

They are doomed unless the Membership take control and replace all the current ‘tarred’ Trustees and the CEO.

[ezmobile]

On 2/7/2020 at 8:12 PM, Moorlander said:

Crap with the NRA has been going on for years , alleged corruption etc , its a real shame , it needs to be run by vetted former business people with a clean track record.

https://savebisley.com/nra-litigation/

Very interesting indeed!

[Re-Pete]

And to be taken with a very large pinch of salt............some serious mint choc chip in there.

Pete

[Re-Pete]

Gonads?

Pete

[Popsbengo]

10 hours ago, ezmobile said:

Very interesting indeed!

What a load of poisonous gonads,  fake news?

[John MH]

2 minutes ago, Popsbengo said:

What a load of poisonous gonads,  fake news?

The Charity Commission intervention is not fake news.

The Savebisley and Bisleyshooting content is to be taken in with the knowledge that both sites operators appear to have an axe to grind. 

[Popsbengo]

30 minutes ago, John MH said:

The Charity Commission intervention is not fake news.

The Savebisley and Bisleyshooting content is to be taken in with the knowledge that both sites operators appear to have an axe to grind. 

Gee, you think so?  Thanks for pointing that out. 😉

I know the CC's intervention is not fake news - that website is full of it though.

[Re-Pete]

As for the faster the bullet the greater the accuracy...............😂

Pete

[Re-Pete]

I think they're using the well-publicised CC issue, (which the NRA is addressing.....), to try and give a whiff of authenticity to the rest of the dross................

Pete

[Popsbengo]

9 minutes ago, Re-Pete said:

I think they're using the well-publicised CC issue, (which the NRA is addressing.....), to try and give a whiff of authenticity to the rest of the dross................

Pete

Dross indeed.  I'm sure the NRA has problems just like any large association, to impute corrupt practice is so easy from behind a veil of anonymity 

there are haters everywhere,  unfortunately the web is full of it.

[One on top of two]

Truth will Out . 

[Popsbengo]

7 minutes ago, One on top of two said:

Truth will Out . 

yes, I agree.  Let's hope we recognise it amongst the noise

[Roy W]

Of course the question of how the Charities Commission got involved in the first place would be an interesting one.

Those commercial entities, such as the Artists (it is a private business, nothing to do with the Artists Rifles anymore) and Bisley shooting Ground, I am sure will be linked back to the original complaints to the CC if that info was available.

Then you have the instigator of Gun Room TV who has been deemed not suitable to possess firearms, who takes every opportunity to have a dig at the NRA as well.

Sour grapes, poor business planning and personal agendas drive this, not a genuine interest is charitable aims.

If you were spending a fortune on a business and, in their own words, financially bailing out the NRA in return for 2 x 21 year leases, wouldn't you have obtained that in the form of a contract? .....................

 

 

[The Gun Pimp]

On 2/7/2020 at 8:12 PM, Moorlander said:

Crap with the NRA has been going on for years , alleged corruption etc , its a real shame , it needs to be run by vetted former business people with a clean track record.

https://savebisley.com/nra-litigation/

Wow - no idea of any of this - an amazing read!

[No i deer]

4 hours ago, Roy W said:

Of course the question of how the Charities Commission got involved in the first place would be an interesting one.

Those commercial entities, such as the Artists (it is a private business, nothing to do with the Artists Rifles anymore) and Bisley shooting Ground, I am sure will be linked back to the original complaints to the CC if that info was available.

Then you have the instigator of Gun Room TV who has been deemed not suitable to possess firearms, who takes every opportunity to have a dig at the NRA as well.

Sour grapes, poor business planning and personal agendas drive this, not a genuine interest is charitable aims.

If you were spending a fortune on a business and, in their own words, financially bailing out the NRA in return for 2 x 21 year leases, wouldn't you have obtained that in the form of a contract? .....................

 

 

Well said Roy

[TSG]

There are of course plenty of views on the NRA, its trustees and CEO. My own knowedge of this only encompasses the lease renewal for one of the Rifle clubs at Bisley which was a difficult process as lease negotiations often are. Most of this was due to one person with an agenda.I have also been a tenant of the NRA personally which was cost effective and to be fair although the practices surrounding electricity supply were unusual they were on the whole good landlords. There are  however, a lot of people involved with their own agendas some of which do not sit well with some of the ordinary members. Quite a number of the leases were at a price which would be fine when originally negotiated (potentially 21 years ago) but at today's rents are more realistic. Common sense dictates that clubs should anticipate this and budget accordingly but one would expect that the negotiations would be polite and proffesional

I have read the NRA press release regarding charitable activities and the Charity Commision Report. I rather think the NRA version of events and the potential seriousness of the situation (whilst not quite Kids Company and that awful woman who ran it) has been downplayed somewhat. 

I like the idea of the NRA but it has to many committees, councils with members who   Seem to have no power to change things and an overall reliance on the Civil Nuclear Constabulary which has in effect paid for a well needed upgrade of all of the ranges. The principles however do need to change. I have no doubt there has been some poor practices surrounding ammunition procurement as an example.

The NRA needs to speak for all shooters rather than just being Target Rifle centred. Much as the American version is detested, at least they are a political force to deal with. It needs a charismatic CEO who engages with shooting and listens to members rather than regarding them as a cash reserve and has the drive to make all the shooters who use Bisley to work together rather than arguing with them at the AGM.

Personally I think they are wasting their time defending the Charity status now. Get on with making the  NRA the organisation that speaks for all shooters spend the money wisely and employ staff who are please to work for them and stay in post.