22 LR Average Group from your gun

[No i deer]

You get what you get

[Bangbangman]

55 minutes ago, fourtyvoats said:

The smallest is 1/2 the size of the largest. Any idea why?

 

Read up on statistics in shooting (or watch vids.) It may be illuminating.

 

Not meant to be sarcastic, BTW!

[fourtyvoats]

Please explain for us simpletons.

[No i deer]

10 hours ago, fourtyvoats said:

Please explain for us simpletons.

One reason I think the groups were tighter yesterday is I used my cushion thing and there was less lateral movement than when using the bean bag

[1066]

13 hours ago, fourtyvoats said:

The smallest is 1/2 the size of the largest. Any idea why?

 

Because it's a .22lr - and that really irks me.

[Adamdavi3s]

Messing around with a tuner in the Vudoo, not sure it’s making much difference, need to get back to rifleman’s indoor range really. 
 

SK Rifle Match straight out the box, gusty wind after the top row

Marked on how many were shot at each 

I am definitely expecting better if and when I try some Lapua ammo, I think it shot better with SK long range as well but it goes supersonic which is very frustrating. 
R50 was fantastic at 100 before but again, supersonic 

[No i deer]

50yds..?

[Adamdavi3s]

Whoops yep 50 👍

would be happy if this was 100, I’ll get there 🤣

[No i deer]

You might need a different tuner setting from 50 too 100yds..

Not familiar with a tuner though I have now got one on my new 7mm saum barrel..

Did the load development that went well but not got too twiddle with the tuner yet.

[Big Al]

I have a tuner on my original Finnfire, in a tunnel at 100yds I found that typically you can tune the ammo to be fully in and then fully out of tune easily, the difference is typically a bit more than a halving or doubling in group size depending on where you start. Depending on the ammo quality there will still be flyers but Im confident in my shooting technique to be able to call them.

Eley Subs for example which my barrel never liked pre-tuner were shooting about 1.3" at 100yds to begin with, I improved that to 0.75" with consistency. As I continued to adjust the tuner into a scatter node it got as bad as 1.8" but no worse before coming back round to accuracy again.

Something I havent concluded yet though is if every accuracy node is the same or if some are better than others, when I have more spare time I would like to find that out.

Ive seen 5 shot half inch groups with SK Std, all shot from a good bench in a tunnel with a bipod and rear bag.

People move tuners too much and they also make them too heavy, it doesn't take much to achieve quite a drastic change.

[Adamdavi3s]

Yeah, I have one so I’m trying it out! I’m not sure the Vudoo needs it but it was on from the last session so I had more of a play. Moving it 1/2 turn to start with, you can see the groups where I knew it wasn’t right as I only shot 3 or 5. 
I have the kinetic security solutions ATS as at the time it was the only one available in the UK to work with a mod. On my ruger precision I only ever managed to de-tune it to be honest. 

If I were buying again I’d get one from GTAC, fine piece of kit that. 

This Vudoo will do 1/2” at 100 I am sure of it, it did .7 with both Centre-x and R50 indoors, when I was tired and didn’t season the barrel between. It’s a beast! 
 

Can’t remember if I posted these before so apologies if I have. 
The R50 is the one big hole, I’d be pretty confident that the two pulled shots were me. 
 

I would shoot R50 all the time but it’s supersonic out of the 20” barrel. I might try some biathlon which is 320m/s vs the 330m/s of R50
 

[No i deer]

Just find out what ammo it likes best and stick with it..

I'd like too shoot mine off a bench in a tunnel too see what it can do..

I've had alot of fun shooting my 22 and had intended on buying a CZ457 LRP but mine shoots so well I might end up with a less accurate gun..

I've had 0.750 inch groups at 100yds across the fields so indoors it would/could do better..

I had a few 5 shot groups Sunday at 50yds in the late 0.1's  so I believe it too could do 0.5 inches at 100yds.

 

[Big Al]

4 hours ago, Adamdavi3s said:

Yeah, I have one so I’m trying it out! I’m not sure the Vudoo needs it but it was on from the last session so I had more of a play. Moving it 1/2 turn to start with, you can see the groups where I knew it wasn’t right as I only shot 3 or 5. 
I have the kinetic security solutions ATS as at the time it was the only one available in the UK to work with a mod. On my ruger precision I only ever managed to de-tune it to be honest. 
 

Half a turn on a tuner is way too much, there is a good reason they have small increments marked on them.

[Adamdavi3s]

8 hours ago, Big Al said:

Half a turn on a tuner is way too much, there is a good reason they have small increments marked on them.

Actually it’s isn’t when working with rimfire with a short heavy barrel but thank you 👍  1/2 turns seemed to be about right to get any major change in performance which is also noted in the ATS manual. At some point when I’m indoors and looking at it more seriously than just “having a fiddle” then I’ll probably work to refine it with smaller increments.

however given the (lack) of availability of ammo consistently at the moment I can’t help but feel it’s a bit of a pointless endeavour and will probably take it off and just shoot what I can find, it’s one of the reasons I got the Vudoo as it should shoot most things well, I just need to stop chasing the dragon and get out and shoot 🤣🤣

[Twodogs]

In my experience.

The amount of movement of any tuner and it’s impact on grouping and POI is all relative to a number of factors such as tuner weight, thread pitch, index marking interval and other factors of individual tuner design. To compare one to another is not a valid comparison.

Not forgetting and much to the annoyance of all .22 shooters the individual rifle and ammunition all add to the difficulties. We just have to work with what works for us on our rifles with the ammunition we have, understanding that this could all change if any individual factor is changed.

In the attached picture you can see the difference to group size and vertical spread  achieved by adjusting my tuner by one marked increment. 5 round groups at 25m.

Whilst running in my Walther KK500 I tried adding a Starik tuner, set at zero, this had the effect of lower the MPI by about 1.5” and almost doubling the group size. Yet to explore as the rifle seems to perform pretty well without a tuner.

[Big Al]

26 minutes ago, Twodogs said:

In my experience.

The amount of movement of any tuner and it’s impact on grouping and POI is all relative to a number of factors such as tuner weight, thread pitch, index marking interval and other factors of individual tuner design. To compare one to another is not a valid comparison.

You are right, tuner weight, thread pitch, barrel stiffness and increment size all matter but nothing more so than how much you move it and in what kind of sequence. I know from experience and a lot of research that there isnt a tuner on the market light enough where moving it half a turn would give a small enough incremental change to not miss nodes between each half turn, hence my advice.

Tuners have smaller increments marked on them for the obvious reason, depending on all the factors we agree on above you then choose to work in single or multiple equal increments but never half a turn, its just far too coarse a change for any barrel or tuner on the market.

[Adamdavi3s]

Noted.

[No i deer]

Shot my 7mm saum and 7mm 270 today..

A huge difference between them and the 22lr 🙃

[No i deer]

Had a mare this afternoon..

Near perfect conditions too..

Tried a new batch of eley match..

Not sure if it was me having a bad day or not..

The old batch didn't look good either 😕. 

Top in the orange 42gr winnie subs 7 shot groups too use them up..

Next row new lot of eley match. 

Next row old lot of eley match and bottom row new lot of eley match..

[No i deer]

I'll have too try my butt plug tuner to use up these crap eley match

[Adamdavi3s]

Right getting somewhere now, messed with 1/5th turns at 100y and then when the wind got up a bit bought it back to 50 and tried 1 increment turns but not sure it made any difference, at least with  the setup of rests I had and the nut behind the gun anyway

Tried various ammo at 100 today (with the tuner off) 

SK rifle match

SK long range match

Centre X 

R50 (only had 4 left 🤣)

Eley Match

Eley Tenex 

 

Rifle match was the only one which was subsonic and thankfully was the best but will see when I stretch it out to 300

All 10 round groups of course 

 

100y groups

 

 

 

50y groups 

 

 

 

 

 

[No i deer]

Not looking forward to my next outing after how the new batch of eley match shot...

I called up the gunshop I buy my ammo from today and he had 1 box of 50 of the good lot..

I said keep them for me..

My fac is away so i couldnt have them.

The rest was the same new crappy batch I have..

I did ask if he'd swap and he would of if he had the good lot.

[No i deer]

I've put on the deresonator tuner ready too try to improve the accuracy of the new lot of ammo.

Josh on pursuit of accuracy was attempting to beat f class John's score in his f class set up on josh's latest video using his vudoo off the pod and sk standard ammo not his lot tested eley match and it still shot well speed shooting..

I'd like to see how he speed shoots his best ammo..

 

[No i deer]

Does anybody know what bullet the CZ457 LRP was headspaced for..?? 

Eg..

Tenex or say lapua centre x

[Bangbangman]

This weekend I re zero'd my Bergara B14R (MDT LSS XL chassis) as I'd put a new scope on it, ahead of a world championship qualifier match 11/12th March.

 

In no wind it shot the best 5 shot groups it's ever done at my local 51m and 100m range. These aren't "average" groups.

 

I shot a 10shot group at 100m but the wind had picked up and was swirling around the quarry range.

 

 

 

 

 

 

On a good day, this rifle/ammo/shooter combo can achieve 1/2MOA at 100m but it is not typical/reliable performance. 1MOA is pretty reliable (centre-centre), if I read the wind right. 

 

I previously shot Team and Tenex out to 262m (they, and Match, are the same thing, only differentiated into subtype by batch testing at Eley):

 

 

These groups are more typical: