Popsbengo Posted July 25, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2022 43 minutes ago, Dellboy said: if you think its correct or not the insurance cover seems to require it I don't think that's correct, where do you have that info from ? I have the insurance documents for my club and I know what's covered and what limitations and requirements. If you have further info I would be grateful and will review with the broker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Re-Pete Posted July 25, 2022 Report Share Posted July 25, 2022 Individual full members of the NRA, with a valid SCC, can book a target and shoot solo at Bisley if they wish........I'm one of them. AFAIK, members of affiliated clubs can only shoot if the booking is made by an official of their club, rather than any individual member, and there would need to be more than one member present for it to qualify as a club booking. Then again, I may be wrong... Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted July 25, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2022 21 minutes ago, Re-Pete said: Individual full members of the NRA, with a valid SCC, can book a target and shoot solo at Bisley if they wish........I'm one of them. AFAIK, members of affiliated clubs can only shoot if the booking is made by an official of their club, rather than any individual member, and there would need to be more than one member present for it to qualify as a club booking. Then again, I may be wrong... Pete No, you are correct, clubs book and must then supervise their members with at least one qualified RCO. We have done and will continue to book for our club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dellboy Posted July 25, 2022 Report Share Posted July 25, 2022 4 hours ago, Popsbengo said: I don't think that's correct, where do you have that info from ? I have the insurance documents for my club and I know what's covered and what limitations and requirements. If you have further info I would be grateful and will review with the broker Bluefin insurance via nrsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nCognitos Posted July 25, 2022 Report Share Posted July 25, 2022 7 hours ago, Re-Pete said: AFAIK, members of affiliated clubs can only shoot if the booking is made by an official of their club, rather than any individual member, and there would need to be more than one member present for it to qualify as a club booking. Then again, I may be wrong... You're not wrong but it is a bit more nuanced than that. Before I re-joined the NRA, I used to book range time at Bisley through my club and shoot on my own, but I did have an SCC. If I didn't have an SCC then I would need to have been under Club RCO supervision. 13 hours ago, Popsbengo said: With regard to training "everyone" to be an RCO - well that's a unique response! NSRA isn't like the NRA, it's an afternoon so it's not so much of a ball-ache. No military range stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Re-Pete Posted July 27, 2022 Report Share Posted July 27, 2022 nCognitos said: "I used to book range time at Bisley through my club and shoot on my own, but I did have an SCC. If I didn't have an SCC then I would need to have been under Club RCO supervision. I'm not sure if you can still do that. I think the rules changed a while back. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted July 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2022 3 hours ago, Re-Pete said: nCognitos said: "I used to book range time at Bisley through my club and shoot on my own, but I did have an SCC. If I didn't have an SCC then I would need to have been under Club RCO supervision. I'm not sure if you can still do that. I think the rules changed a while back. Pete My NRA affiliated club pays for a Bisley card (£40) which allows us to book the ranges for club events. We book a couple of lanes and then provide the qualified RCO cover for our group which includes SCC holders and non-SCC holders (who have to be 1:1 supervised by an SCC holder who may or may not also be an RCO). We can't use the zero range unless we also happen to be an NRA personal member (as was our experience last month). My understanding is that only club events can be booked as such and that doesn't include for a "solo shooter club event" to the best of my knowledge. Certainly an affiliated club member can't just book a lane, it has to be a club officer on behalf of the club. NRA Rules: 108a require an RO to supervise a shooting party - at Bisley that has to be an NRA qualified RCO. The fact that I can book a lane, sign in and 'crack on' alone as a personal NRA member and SCC holder doesn't read across to affiliated club events apparently... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Re-Pete Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 So you can turn up to shoot as a member of an affiliated club, discover that for some reason or other your rifle has lost zero, and then not be able to use the zero range? I bet that would go down well if you'd just driven 100mls to get there.......... Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted July 28, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 28 minutes ago, Re-Pete said: So you can turn up to shoot as a member of an affiliated club, discover that for some reason or other your rifle has lost zero, and then not be able to use the zero range? I bet that would go down well if you'd just driven 100mls to get there.......... Pete We had that problem, one of our SCC affiliate members was turned down from going to the zero range alone. Of course, a NRA personal member could take the gun along, as we did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nCognitos Posted July 29, 2022 Report Share Posted July 29, 2022 How very odd, you should complain. Affiliated club members can use the zero range on the day of, or on the day before a club shoot. I used to do it and I know non-NRA members of the club with SCC's do it now. However, no SCC and its game over. When booking as a club member, I booked through the club and toddled off to shoot on my own. To be fair, this involves a trip to the shelter behind the range office to sign in, no actual contact with range office staff these days. Anyway, not going to enquire too closely, don't want to queer the pitch for anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artiglio Posted July 29, 2022 Report Share Posted July 29, 2022 Would seem odd if an affiliated club member with an SSC can’t use the zero range, not least because it’s effectively a safety / good practice issue. Given that if you miss the board twice you should retire from the point and check your zero , additionally the NRA blames lots of the problems with electronics on those whose zero is insufficient to hit the aiming area and damage occurs to the frame/electronics on occasion. The only reason i can see is that the club hasn’t booked the zero range and had it allocated by the NRA and as such when the club signs in they’ve not effectively declared they’ll have an RCO available at the zero range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted July 31, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 On 7/29/2022 at 9:03 AM, Artiglio said: Would seem odd if an affiliated club member with an SSC can’t use the zero range, not least because it’s effectively a safety / good practice issue. Given that if you miss the board twice you should retire from the point and check your zero , additionally the NRA blames lots of the problems with electronics on those whose zero is insufficient to hit the aiming area and damage occurs to the frame/electronics on occasion. The only reason i can see is that the club hasn’t booked the zero range and had it allocated by the NRA and as such when the club signs in they’ve not effectively declared they’ll have an RCO available at the zero range. I clarified this with the range office on Friday. Our chap being turned away was a misunderstanding. As long as an affiliated member's club has a range booking on that day (or next day if competing in an organised comp), then they can use the zero range. If they do not have an SCC then they must be supervised by another club member with SCC for the same category of firearm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artiglio Posted July 31, 2022 Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 That makes more sense. Thanks for the clarification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinC Posted December 17, 2022 Report Share Posted December 17, 2022 On 7/24/2022 at 9:29 AM, RobinC said: The NRA's SCC route is stated in the journal as it will be the club chairman's job to state the person is safe to reload, as the Chairman currently signs off the person as safe to shoot with the SCC, but with no comment on how on earth they can know in relation to reloading!! Do they seriously expect club Chairman to set up an assessment process!!! Could well soon be a position no one wants! That said, there is no detail of how it will be implemented, although they say there is a code of practice imminent. Many of us get our SCC through the NRA, how can they know we are safe to load and will comply with safe loads? Will there now be an assessment process? Even for people who have been loading safely longer than those teaching reloading, soa grandfathers rights process!! Its a well meaning idea, but totally impractical! And, it misses the point of the problem, not that we don't know how to do it, or what best practice actually is, the problem is those that what ever good practice is will get the SCC and then do what they wish! Bit like the UK average driver, has a licence but drives like a nutter with no respect for the law! We all know there are shooters with massively over charged loads, I was asked to help a Match rifle shooter on reloading, I was shown his existing load, on a 7.62, it was 5 grains over the max safe load!!!! I walked away! He is not alone, and to many, that is the norm! The problem is not the guy who does not know, its the guy who wants that last iota of wind bucking, and velocity, and simply does not care about safety. Nothing will change, the SCC system if carried through, will be a box ticking exercise. The answer like driving , is enforcement of offenders, It needs regular spot checks on shooters ammo, muzzle velocity, and samples taken of the load and dismantled, and checks done, and it made clear that dangerous offenders will be shown the door! Have Fun Robin Well, those of you who are NRA members will now know, that the SCC route has disappeared into the ether, no mention of it in the current Journal, and when I enquired when renewing my membership and SCC, it went very quiet!! They said its being considered for some other time! I suspect they have found that its totally unworkable, it would be unworkable, impossible to verify if a reloader was safe with out some form of compulsory course or checks, and then a waste of time as only range checks on ammo being used would catch those who just over load because the think they know best!! The only way is spot checks, and show the offender the gate, even if they are influentual life members! Have Fun Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted December 17, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2022 55 minutes ago, RobinC said: Well, those of you who are NRA members will now know, that the SCC route has disappeared into the ether, no mention of it in the current Journal, and when I enquired when renewing my membership and SCC, it went very quiet!! They said its being considered for some other time! I suspect they have found that its totally unworkable, it would be unworkable, impossible to verify if a reloader was safe with out some form of compulsory course or checks, and then a waste of time as only range checks on ammo being used would catch those who just over load because the think they know best!! The only way is spot checks, and show the offender the gate, even if they are influentual life members! Have Fun Robin Training is one thing, following the training is another. I'm sure they don't teach speeding at driving school 😁 It's a potential minefield for clubs. Unfortunately there are a minority of shooters who will make mistakes through inattention and those that make deliberate and foolish errors of judgement. I have witnessed fingers being blown off (not my club) and I just hope to avoid being next to Mr. Knob-head on the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin_b Posted January 12, 2023 Report Share Posted January 12, 2023 Just got this from my club... As you may be aware by now, the NRA are working on issues surrounding 6 breech explosions over the last 5 years. They are clear that in almost all cases it involves hand loaded ammunition and that they intend to add re-loading as a skill to the Shooters certification card from January 2024. No more info than that Im afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted January 12, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, martin_b said: Just got this from my club... As you may be aware by now, the NRA are working on issues surrounding 6 breech explosions over the last 5 years. They are clear that in almost all cases it involves hand loaded ammunition and that they intend to add re-loading as a skill to the Shooters certification card from January 2024. No more info than that Im afraid. I'm not personally adverse to the idea of accredited training so I'm looking forward to NRA advice on exactly how clubs are to achieve this.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No i deer Posted January 12, 2023 Report Share Posted January 12, 2023 I've recently signed a declaration sent out by a club I've been a member of for over 10 years about the ammo I load.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted January 12, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2023 13 minutes ago, No i deer said: I've recently signed a declaration sent out by a club I've been a member of for over 10 years about the ammo I load.. I don't get your point ? What's "time served" in a club to do with it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin_b Posted January 12, 2023 Report Share Posted January 12, 2023 Im all in favour of training, Ive done a club course myself, but from what i understand most of the incidents are caused by a putting by acidentally loading the wrong powder in the case. Pistol powder in a magnum rifle case isnt going to end well. My own "rule" is a different powder mauufacturer for each calibre I load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolte Posted January 12, 2023 Report Share Posted January 12, 2023 36 minutes ago, martin_b said: Im all in favour of training, Ive done a club course myself, but from what i understand most of the incidents are caused by a putting by acidentally loading the wrong powder in the case. Pistol powder in a magnum rifle case isnt going to end well. My own "rule" is a different powder mauufacturer for each calibre I load. Mistakes get made regardless of teaching and training. Your post is a good example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted January 12, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, bolte said: Mistakes get made regardless of teaching and training. Your post is a good example. True, but training should reduce the likelihood. I've come across a few woefully ignorant chaps who don't understand the basics, just muddle through until they make the (hopefully not) fatal error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No i deer Posted January 12, 2023 Report Share Posted January 12, 2023 4 hours ago, Popsbengo said: I don't get your point ? What's "time served" in a club to do with it ? Nothing but it's too do with having too sign a form too say your ammo is good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John MH Posted January 12, 2023 Report Share Posted January 12, 2023 Can of worms best kept with the lid on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John MH Posted January 15, 2023 Report Share Posted January 15, 2023 Copied from another Forum: Quote Just been to my local club. Several members there were participating in a Regional RSO course. They came back stating they had been informed that sometime this year, possible as early as April a new rule regarding "homeloads" is to be introduced by the NRA. This rule, which they state is being driven by the MOD, means that unless you have attended one of the NRA's homeloading courses and have it marked on your SSC card, that you will be unable to shoot homeloads at Bisley OR any other MOD range. Anyone know anything about this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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