Handloaded Ammunition Declaration: MoD Ranges

[Popsbengo]

How many have seen and submitted the NRA "Handloaded Ammunition Declaration" ?   I see it's required for Birmingham Bisley.

Do we know if MoD now implemented this for all DIO range bookings ?

 

[banus02]

our club has not been told anything and we shoot at bisley but i will ask the club chairman

[Popsbengo]

8 minutes ago, banus02 said:

our club has not been told anything and we shoot at bisley but i will ask the club chairman

Not applied at Bisley (so far).

[John MH]

Pointless arse covering exercise.

[Richiew]

Had to give our hand load info to Marc at the old eskdalemuir range  ie bullet , brass , powder type and how much powder . So why not everywhere ?? . 

[Catch-22]

When we submit RSDs along with the JSP907s, we just state hand loaded ammunition might be used and is the responsibility of the shooter for safety.

[Popsbengo]

4 hours ago, Richiew said:

Had to give our hand load info to Marc at the old eskdalemuir range  ie bullet , brass , powder type and how much powder . So why not everywhere ?? . 

never done that

[Mattnall]

15 hours ago, Richiew said:

Had to give our hand load info to Marc at the old eskdalemuir range  ie bullet , brass , powder type and how much powder . So why not everywhere ?? . 

The question should be: why there when no one else needs it?

 

[Richiew]

Could be trying to pinch our load data to sell on the black market??? 

[Laurie]

Not new. This requirement was introduced shortly after the 1988 Firearms Acts changes that banned self-loaders, so must have been c. 1989/90. I can remember photocopying a pro-forma slip at work and filling in the blanks for multiple loads / cartridges and taking them to club range days at MoD Strensall. I was never asked to show one to anybody on site then (MoD wardens, pre-Landmarc) and never heard of anybody else being asked to. So, after 12 or 18 months nobody bothered any more about this.

As well as quoting the data-set source and affirming the handload used conformed to it, it was primarily a declaration that one had loaded ammunition in accordance with the prevailing MoD MV and ME ceilings. This was long, long before today's tighter limits and the resulting HME compliance regime was instituted of course and one could have loaded up compliant 338LM ammo for most sites.      

[Popsbengo]

59 minutes ago, Laurie said:

Not new. This requirement was introduced shortly after the 1988 Firearms Acts changes that banned self-loaders, so must have been c. 1989/90. I can remember photocopying a pro-forma slip at work and filling in the blanks for multiple loads / cartridges and taking them to club range days at MoD Strensall. I was never asked to show one to anybody on site then (MoD wardens, pre-Landmarc) and never heard of anybody else being asked to. So, after 12 or 18 months nobody bothered any more about this.

As well as quoting the data-set source and affirming the handload used conformed to it, it was primarily a declaration that one had loaded ammunition in accordance with the prevailing MoD MV and ME ceilings. This was long, long before today's tighter limits and the resulting HME compliance regime was instituted of course and one could have loaded up compliant 338LM ammo for most sites.      

Interesting,  I used to be a regular shooter at Kingsbury and also organised the bookings, RCO etc.  Never asked to provide anything either by DIO or Landmarc.

[Richiew]

Latest club info infers that landmark at catterick are wanting to limit us to factory ammo only ??

[Popsbengo]

1 hour ago, Richiew said:

Latest club info infers that landmark at catterick are wanting to limit us to factory ammo only ??

How implies?  Your club ?  if so I wonder if they've had instruction from DIO (it's not Landmarc's call, they do as they're told).

There's no advice generally issued to clubs I'm aware of - I would have seen that as a Club Sec.

[alpha1]

On 5/24/2022 at 6:35 PM, Richiew said:

Latest club info infers that landmark at catterick are wanting to limit us to factory ammo only ??

I regularly book ranges at Catterick and speak to the people in the booking office at least once a month I have heard no mention of limiting ammo to factory only.

[Richiew]

14 hours ago, alpha1 said:

I regularly book ranges at Catterick and speak to the people in the booking office at least once a month I have heard no mention of limiting ammo to factory only.

Hi there 

sure this came out in one of our club emails. I saved it somewhere safe but it’s so safe I can’t find it yet but thought at the time that’s going to mess up our shooting . Good to know that there’s nothing coming from landmarc. Cheers 

[stottycake]

On 5/23/2022 at 6:32 PM, Richiew said:

Had to give our hand load info to Marc at the old eskdalemuir range  ie bullet , brass , powder type and how much powder . So why not everywhere ?? . 

Never asked to do it for eskdalemuir or area 4,but had to fill a form out for Longtown range for hand loaded ammunition, strange eh,

[Richiew]

1 hour ago, stottycake said:

Never asked to do it for eskdalemuir or area 4,but had to fill a form out for Longtown range for hand loaded ammunition, strange eh,

Marc wanted info about our hand loads in 2019 , all that testing then give away your secrets !!!! . It was a form from Helen via email. Will see what happens in the future. 
Nowadays happy to pass on info if it helps newcomers. It was a nightmare years ago getting info from clubmen as to where I should be looking for reloading. Cheers 

[Popsbengo]

3 minutes ago, Richiew said:

Marc wanted info about our hand loads in 2019 , all that testing then give away your secrets !!!! . It was a form from Helen via email. Will see what happens in the future. 
Nowadays happy to pass on info if it helps newcomers. It was a nightmare years ago getting info from clubmen as to where I should be looking for reloading. Cheers 

This sounds a bit like paranoia,  there's plenty of data available on-line and in manuals and anyway, one person's load may not suit another's rifle or indeed be anywhere near.  Why on earth would anyone keep "secrets" ?

It's about safety / insurance / arse-covering (take your pick).

[Richiew]

Very secretive with loads regarding club comps mate . Don’t want us newcomers beating the old hands ???? . Took me a lot of persuading to get info re what’s a good starting point . Happy with my loads now 7 years later  . It’s just how it is with clubs . Cheers 

[Popsbengo]

1 hour ago, Richiew said:

Very secretive with loads regarding club comps mate . Don’t want us newcomers beating the old hands ???? . Took me a lot of persuading to get info re what’s a good starting point . Happy with my loads now 7 years later  . It’s just how it is with clubs . Cheers 

Not in my experience at all and I'm willing to bet there's a lot of 'old hands' on here that would agree with me

[Richiew]

Most people pointed me towards lapua 155s and had a reasonable load but nothing flash so I moved onto Berger and hornady and started to have much better results that those older chaps were asking me what I was using , now they’re all using Berger. Reading Bryan litz book I wouldn’t of bothered with lapua as they don’t suit my twist rate . Live and learn eh . I’ll now pick a bullet to suit twist rate and speed and maybe compromise a little on ultimate BC . That said the older chaps are all using TRGs and they will suit lapua with the 1:10” twist . Didn’t know all that stuff when starting out . Knowledge is power so pass it on but also pass on the intracies of twist and barrel length . Cheers 

[Popsbengo]

49 minutes ago, Richiew said:

Most people pointed me towards lapua 155s and had a reasonable load but nothing flash so I moved onto Berger and hornady and started to have much better results that those older chaps were asking me what I was using , now they’re all using Berger. Reading Bryan litz book I wouldn’t of bothered with lapua as they don’t suit my twist rate . Live and learn eh . I’ll now pick a bullet to suit twist rate and speed and maybe compromise a little on ultimate BC . That said the older chaps are all using TRGs and they will suit lapua with the 1:10” twist . Didn’t know all that stuff when starting out . Knowledge is power so pass it on but also pass on the intracies of twist and barrel length . Cheers 

🤔 

[VarmLR]

Never been asked to provide details of handloads at Landmarc sites but was once asked to sign off that I was using hand loaded ammunition.  I can't see anyone sitting down pouring through sheets of load data only to come back prior to a shoot to say something like "according to QL, your load exceeds MV/energy limits for this range" which might seem the whole point of such details, at least originally.  Sounds like a box ticking exercise of dubious merit.  As to passing on secrets, I wouldn't worry one bit about that.  Anyone with sufficient knowledge and experience is capable of working up good loads for themselves given the choice of bullets and powders available today, not to mention the raft of online data plus load development time proving a load.  I have been next to someone on a range, who like me, was using hand loaded ammunition.  After his umpteenth very sticky bolt in a row and flat as a pancake primers, I decided that prudence was order of the day and left that shooting lane for one more distant!  I did though suggest, tactfully, that perhaps he might want to rethink shooting any more of that batch.

[Brillo]

As one of those involved in organising the Birmingham Bisley, there was some initial concern about the declaration, but it is nothing onerous and it does not ask for specifics. Therefore, any load data remains in the privy to the person signing the declaration.

All it asks is that the shooter specifies which calibre is being used and which source the load data came from. For example, I stated .308 and the data source was Quickload and the Berger reloading manual. 

[VarmLR]

That sounds sensible Mark.  I guess for most not using QL, it's a matter of stating the powder manufacturer's guide or that of a recognised load manual and that loads were within maximum recommended.