Jump to content
UKV - The Place for Precision Rifle Enthusiasts


  • Content count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

About Catch-22

  • Rank
    Advanced Member

Profile Information

  • Gender
  • Location
    Newport - sunny South Wales

Recent Profile Visitors

1,647 profile views
  1. Catch-22

    Load development

    Yes the KVB-223m is a good primer. But there are many others too. As VarmLR notes, Laurie Holland has done some Stirling primer tests and makes some brilliant recommendations. My loads are hot, in that they are over book max. But again they exhibit zero pressure signs in my rifle - no cratering, flattening of primers, no sticky bolt, no ejector marks, no hard extraction and no real growth of the web. F/L sizing each time is easy...no issues. I wouldn’t expect you to get anywhere near that velocity in a 22” tube. Possibly around 2750fps I’d think. But I have no doubt you’ll find a very accurate node very quickly. I’ve found the 6.5x47 to be one of the most easy to tune and forgiving calibre’s out there! Yes coating does mean I need to go around 1 full grain higher than I coated bullets to obtain the same velocity. Coating the barrel, I use a 95% mix of 99% Isopropyl Alcohol to 5% mix of HbN. It’s a slurry mix that’s the consistency of whole milk. I dip a patch on a cleaning rod in the slurry and coat the bore twice. Leave the alcohol to evaporate (30mins) before shooting. I do this before each shoot. After each shoot, I only use a carbon remover. On average, I shoot between 100 and 200rounds a session. I like to clean the carbon out after each shoot due to the possibility of corrosion. I don’t really worry about copper. My 1st cold bore shot is essentially on top of each subsequent shot. My most recent shoot was Warminster. With my big .338 Norma Mag (also using HbN coated bullets, bore and same cleaning regime), I put all three bullets into the size of a 20p during my HME test at 200yds, with no prior sighters. For me, I believe coating works well. And I’m hoping the throats of all my barrels will last just a bit longer due to the ceramic coating. Time will tell.
  2. Catch-22

    Load development

    Yeah, I think this is a real accuracy node. I remember reading an excellent article by Zak Smith (one of the early founders of practical precision shooting comps) who had his AI-AW chambered in a 25” barrel in the then very new 6.5x47. He turned in many good loads with various bullets but the pick of the lot was a 123gn Scenar at around 2930fps. So it would seem the 2920-2950fps harmonic node is just about the sweet spot for 123gn class bullets in a 6.5x47...regardless of powder and primer used.
  3. Catch-22

    Load development

    Hi n8ess, I still shoot the same load but now in a different 6.5x47. In my previous rifle (Tikka with 24” Bergara barrel) the load I used was; 123gn Scenar, 38.4gn N140, Murom KVB-223m primer. Gave around 2930fps. No pressure signs (in my rifle) until I hit 38.7gn. My current rifle (custom Defiance tubegun with 26” Bartlein barrel) and the load I now use; 123gn Scenar, 38.8gn N140**, Murom KVB-223m primer. Gives 2925fps. Zero pressure at all. I could & have tried a higher charge, but the accuracy wasn’t there NOTE** I coat my bullets and barrel in this rifle with HbN, so it permits me to go at least a full grain more than bare bullets. Do not use either load without working up fully. I’m aware that they’re both way over book max but I worked up safely and know they’re safe for me.
  4. Catch-22

    Load development

    Nice - worth a go. Initially I didn’t think it would be the primer, especially as the CCI450 is probably used by most people in the 6.5x47. But for whatever reason, the KVB-223m was better. After seeing that, I went and bought around 15,000 of the buggers!
  5. Catch-22

    Load development

    I remember a previous rifle I had in 6.5x47. I was doing everything right and the rifle shot well to 600m, but I was bugged by ES that was in the 50s and 60s. A simple switch in primers, from CCI450 to Murom KVB-223m, with no other changes at all instantly reduced my ES to around 9fps. Surprisingly group size didn’t change at all, around 0.35MOA at 100m and still low vertical at 600m. Personally I don’t change bullet or powder, but will change primer and seating depth to really tune a load from Ho-Hum to Yum-Yum. 😆
  6. Catch-22

    Accuracy, how much is down to the press?

    Maybe...but maybe not! Its great Pops has done some more testing of his own, but one person isn’t statistically significant of a method working or not. The article I linked to shows another respected shooter did in fact get demonstrably significant improvement by rotating. So there’s one for it...one against. Would be interesting to collate data across a lot of people to see whether there’s statistical significance across the spread. Pops, I also wonder whether you’re not getting much improvement due to the honed dies you use. Not sure if these are ‘standard’ dies you can buy or you’ve had them modified?? But perhaps the rotational method irons out any run out or lack of concentricity you might get with standard mass produced dies? So maybe rotation isn’t that useful if using custom or ‘specialised’ dies? Dunno.
  7. I’m not affiliated with OW in any way other than I’ve been a satisfied customer of theirs in the past - very nice and helpful people. They’ve got some stonking deals on and have a further 10% off at the moment. Just picked up a new Schmidt 5-25. 🥳
  8. Catch-22

    Thoughts on Tondu Target Shooting Club

    Does anyone else have insightful comments to add to this thread? 🙄 Anyone with actual experience of Tondu as a club? Thanks
  9. Catch-22

    Barrrel life

    There are so many factors involved in this, it’s an almost impossible question to answer. Barrel material, method of manufacture (eg cut, button, hammer forging), calibre, powder used, charge weight, pressure generated, heat generated, long strings of fire (hot barrel), slow strings of fire (cool barrel), cleaning solvents, method of cleaning are some of the factors that will determine barrel life. In terms of accuracy from barrel life, that’s rather subjective too. A comp shooter may say only 2000-3000 rounds of x-calibre because it’s no longer consistently shooting 0.25MOA. Whereas a hunter with same barrel and calibre might say 5000+ rounds because they’re still shooting sub MOA. Good blog, the first in a new series, on the matter; https://precisionrifleblog.com/2020/03/24/how-fast-does-a-barrel-wear/
  10. Catch-22

    Load development

    I still think there’s far too much over emphasis on chasing extremely low SD/ES numbers. There’s a huge fixation on getting to the 2-3fps numbers when it’s simply not necessary...even at extreme distances. Of course, It is entirely necessary to make good consistent ammunition (good hand-loading practice) and find a stable group (validated over successive strings) that demonstrates ‘good’ SD/ES. But I would ask, what is ‘good’ SD/ES to everyone? What number would you deem to be ‘good’ or ‘good enough’? What magic number are you chasing? An excellent article using Litz’s work, looks at this and calculates that chasing a reduction in SD from 10fps to 3fps yields only a 1% hit improvement rate at 1000yrds on a 20” plate. https://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/04/18/how-much-does-sd-matter/ Ive personally always been very happy under 10fps but really even that, I’m not overly concerned. If it’s 1% or even 5%, the reason why I’ll miss is overwhelmingly going to be environmental factors (misreading the wind) or poor technique (inconsistent trigger squeeze or poor cheekweld etc)....so is it really worth all the procrastination and effort of chasing super low SD/ES?
  11. Catch-22

    Looking to buy an LMT308SP

    Ah ok, didn’t realise. As the above states, it’s only £20 for a variation and shouldn’t be any issue getting it. Worth discussing with your force.
  12. Catch-22

    Looking to buy an LMT308SP

    There’s been one kicking out in the For Sale section for ages. Literally a 2 second search (top right corner of website), found it for you. https://ukvarminting.com/topic/46523-lmt-308-long-and-short-package-deal/?tab=comments#comment-354701
  13. I believe the switch from 30-06 to 308 was driven more by the rules of competition. However, it is worth noting that the standard .30-06 leade angle is 3 degrees, whereas the .308w is 1.5 degrees. The .308w shallower leade is better suited to competition bullets and permits the bullet to ‘gently’ slide into the throat and engage the lands less harshly. The .30-06 3 degree leade is an older design, more akin to WWI and WWII military design. German Salazar (US comp shooter) created a tweaked .30-06 reamer that featured a a 1.5 degree leade. He believed this change leads to greater accuracy. He’s shot very well in 1000yd comps. I’ve recently had a .30-06 barrel spun up using the same reamer design and it does appear to be a good one.
  14. Catch-22

    Powder id??

    Well it’s clearly a double based powder. Being from a major ammunition manufacturer. It might not be a powder that’s commercially available to us reloaders. It could be a powder that’s also used by military customers, so impossible to say.
  15. When things start to settle down with COVID19 (probably in 2yrs time!) I would like to find a dedicated place for shooting gallery/underleaver near by. All my other shooting is medium to long range (600m-1400m) so there’s no opportunity to have some fun with my .44mag underleaver. Tondu seems to be setup for gallery shooting. And it’s close by. Does anyone shoot there? If so, what are your thoughts? Thanks!

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy