Catch-22

A few years ago, I emailed Harrel asking if it would work with large cases, such as 300wm and .338 Norma Magnum and the answer was a flat ‘no’. Tbh, I’m glad I didn’t go with it in the end because I’m dubious that it would have been able to f/l size those big cases anyway. The Rockchucker Supreme handles them with ease.

😂 very comedic!

For what it’s worth, I’ve not used a Kahles but I own two PMII 5-25x56. I’ve verified they track properly (turret dials to reticle) and do so repeatedly. Glass is very good (as most people note) but I really really like the clear and simple double turn elevation turret and I’m totally smitten with the H2CMR reticle. On the downside, I really dislike the windage turret - my brain simply fails to remember which way to correctly dial windage corrections as they don’t mark L1, L2, L3 R1, R2, R3 etc, it’s just numbers and an arrow periodically noting which way is to the RIGHT. I’ve resolved that myself with some electrical tape and marker pen to easily read LEFT or RIGHT values. Other than that, I can’t fault the PMII. I’ll be getting my 3rd soon.

That’s interesting. The chap follows up in some other very useful videos that his testing shows changes in SD/ES as well as case growth and neck diameter. His findings, and that of the AMP team, found when the ideal anneal had been achieved, the case both grew in length and ES/SD lowered AFTER having passed beyond a sort of ‘hump’. He notes that as you heat the the brass up, so that it recrystallises before being fully annealed, you should be able to see your load ES/SD curve goes upward (bad) before then dropping back down again (good). He notes that velocity also increases, then decreases again to a plateau. So it appears there’s a correlation to improved SD/ES and increased case growth but not the top velocity, just a constant one. So it seems to me that to determine if optimum annealing has indeed occurred, you need to test a bunch of cases that have been annealed at different temps/times with whatever method you use, load and shoot and plot the ES/SD. Look for where your loads increase in velocity, then drop again, and you should see your ES/SD drop too. Thats when you know you’re annealed correctly. Measuring colour change or what the tempilaq change isn’t good enough - it’s some trial and error and, more crucially, observing how your loads perform to determine correct annealing. It’s the only way to be sure, unless of course you buy the AMP - they’ve done all that testing for you and measured the consistency of brass recrystallisation with the Vickers tests. But that’s why you pay the big $$$, for that legwork. Again, I have no stake or background knowledge in metallurgy - but I have found the explanations and examples in these videos extremely helpful and to me they make a lot of sense. I for one have learnt some useful things and will definitely try various loads that have been annealed for varying temp/time before observing my ES/SD for that ‘drop off’ point. Annealing ladder testing Pt 1: Pt 2:: Pt 3:

💰💰💰 😭

Yeah, it’s for those same reasons I went away from gas flame and switched to induction. Personally I didn’t fancy salt bath as I don’t have the dedicated space to have it setup the whole time, and felt it was perhaps a bit more risky than flame and induction. That stuff aside, can I ask why, or what convinced, you chose to anneal at 950f for c. 4s? I think that’s the point made in the videos, that we should be reaching a higher temp than 750f for a short time if we want to achieve proper annealing. Everything I’ve read (and practised myself) appears to be wrong; that by simply heating the case to around 750f (using whatever method you like, flame, induction, salt, voodoo...)it’s then annealed properly. Seems that the temp needs to be heated much higher, eg 900-1000f for a few seconds to be correctly annealed, not 750f for a few seconds. It’s this which has lead me to discount the paint indicators (unless perhaps using a 1000f paint??) and rather look for that dull glow (indicating the right temperature) and noting the short time it took to get there. Then repeat that CONSISTENTLY for all cases, time after time.

I know what you’re all thinking, “Uh oh, not ANOTHER thread about annealing”. However, I came across a couple of really interesting videos by a chap who’s supposedly a metallurgist by trade and is a shooter. I found his vids to be very informative and explain the annealing process in greater detail than I’d read/heard before. I’ve been annealing for a while and, tbh, I just followed the crowd using tempilaq 750f on the inside of the necks to see when it’s at temp, thinking once the paint tells me it’s done then the brass is correctly annealed. I sort of felt that made sense, even though I didn’t fully understand the ‘how’ behind it - specifically how the 750f temp was derived and whether using tempilaq (or other) markers actually meant I was annealing correctly. I used to gas anneal, now use a home made induction machine but the thing I’ve learnt most here is the use of such paints may actually mean you’re not getting a full proper anneal. The charts used to infer the 700-750f temp range, which we’ve all read and understand to be the correct annealing temp, actually state you require a 750f temperature over a 1hr period. Time is the crucial thing here. Obviously our cases would be ruined after 1hr as the case head would be affected. His video explains we should reach a higher temp for a short time (eg 900-1000f for a few seconds) so it achieves the same equivalent annealing value of 750f over a 1hr period. His explanation and charts kinda made sense to me. At least I feel someone explained the mathematics/metallurgical thinking behind the rationale, as apposed to just someone on a forum saying ‘buy 750f tempilaq and you’re good’. For me, I’m going to try some reloads using brass that’s been annealed at the 750f mark (per tempilaq indicators) and some annealed to the point where they just appear to turn a dark red in a darkened room (roughly 900-1000f). I want to see if there’s any noticeable change in ES/SD and group size between them. Worth a watch and derive your own conclusions from. Pt 1: Pt 2:

There’s an R93 in the For Sale section, which has a rather nice looking aftermarket stock by Staffordshire Synthetic Stocks. Looks to be their version of the McMillan A5 adjustable tactical stock. If you’re into long range/tactical type shooting, that looks like a sensible option. Looking at the SSS website, they’re pretty good value!

All brilliant stuff. If I were more electrically minded, I too would like to build one completely from scratch. However, after reading the following post from Lillico and watching the video, I built one and I’m mightily impressed. https://ukvarminting.com/topic/50323-amp-diy-alternatives-induction-annealing/?do=findComment&comment=390617 My propane annealing machine was great, never skipped a beat, but with this system, I feel I’ve got more control. Parts list and prices; Hand held Induction machine with 8 coils (£165 eBay) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/153479521952 Time delay, relay timer switch (£9.88 eBay): https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164364848979 Laptop power supply for Relay timer (£8.74 eBay): https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/263527054552 Extension cord (£8 eBay) Total = £191.62

My advice, run the sound monitoring tests on a day when the chaps in black turn up with suppressors affixed. Should help!

I really liked the wammadet a friend lent me for a few years. I actually turned my RCBS Rockchucker into a wamadet, building a simple MDF base, allowing me to easy transport / store it. I used these plans and it works a charm. Very solid and I get very little run out: https://precisionrifleblog.com/2012/11/12/portable-reloading-press-plans/

If you’ve got a Kestrel, you could create gun records with offset values for when you switch between mod and brake. I do that for one of my barrels (brake vs mod) and do it for the 3 other calibre barrels I use (6.5x47, .30-06 and .338NM). I set my zero for one barrel and once figured out my zeros for the other barrels, I record the offsets so Kestrel gives me the correct drop/windage without needing to do any on the fly calculations. Failing that, get yourself an Area419 Sidewinder brake. It’s comprised of two parts; brake and adaptor. Adapter just screws to barrel to stop. The brake then screws to the adaptor which has a cone shape, allowing the brake to essentially lock in to the corresponding cone inside the brake. It does this by pushing the two cones together, locking them, once you’ve timed it. The outside lock ring on the brake holds it in place, but even if it did come loose (hasn’t yet with hundreds of .338NM through it) the cone shaped locking interfaces actually keep everything nice and tight. Sure, it’s down to you to time it. You could use part round rod (in the end of the brake) which turns to a flat portion. Stick a bubble level on the flat and another bubble level on the receiver, elevation turret...whatever, and then you’ve got a more true alignment...more so than just eyeing it perhaps.

Nice looking boomer. Though I really don’t think the 300PRC has 300fps over the 300wm, given it’s the same case diameter, slightly shorter and has just 5% more case capacity. The big thing I see going for it is less the belt but proper freebore. Being able to seat the long heavy bullets long gives a bit more boiler room. However an equally long throated 300wm removes any real advantage the 300PRC has over the standard 300wm. I’d say if building a custom gun, with long freebore, the 300wm & 300PRC are almost identical...barring the belt. But it does look like a nice round, slightly less taper, a more modern 30 degree shoulder and longer neck does look great and should give good performance - especially with Lap brass as you note!

Following this post above, I bought the various bits from eBay and built myself one. 20mins later (mostly spent stripping the thick electrical extension cord) and it was up and running. All I can say is that’s it’s a great bit of kit, it works really well. No gas and it’s super portable, easy to move from case to case. Many thanks to Lillico for posting the video as it had everything I needed (I am in no way an electrical engineer). 👍

Is the gun still shooting decent groups consistently? If it is, don’t do anything to it until your groups start opening up and random fliers appear.

It’s a shame, I would have given that bottle of Bunnahabhain a welcome new home! 🥃 Good luck with your sale! 👍

If I didn’t already own one, also .44mag, I’d have had this. Great guns. Mines been flawless. Good luck with your sale!

Interesting, thanks for the reply!

Apologies, slightly off topic but have you used a rigid chambering setup at all? I know SAC and Area419 are big fans of rigid reamer chambering rather than using floating reamer holders. Cheers 👍

👍😎

All good info so far. Does anyone know of a good retailer of Vectan, Nobelsport and Maxam powders around the S Wales, Bristol, Gloucestershire area? Specifically looking to load light cowboy action loads, (I currently use a 240gn lead bullet with 10.8gn VV N340 - but it’s £90kg!!) so would like to switch to powders like GM3, Maxam CSB5 and PSB2+ etc. Thanks!

Absolutely, a few strips of black gaffer tape over the lights and job done!

SOLD to Hobbit Many thanks 😎

Cool. You'll enjoy the Huber 2-stage ball baring trigger. I have one on my Eliseo Defiance Mutant tube gun. Never had any issues and breaks beautifully with no creep or gritty ness

Still for sale. Complete bargain for a brilliant case.