No i deer Posted February 27, 2021 Report Share Posted February 27, 2021 The Annie's shoot really well..!! Probaly one of the most accurate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No i deer Posted February 27, 2021 Report Share Posted February 27, 2021 I just watched some videos on the CZ 457 lr 22 rimfire and it sounds great.. Go on the sportsman guncentre website.. In to the gun and scroll down to see the 3 videos.. It looks to be the dogs dangleys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer rick Posted February 27, 2021 Report Share Posted February 27, 2021 36 minutes ago, No i deer said: I just watched some videos on the CZ 457 lr 22 rimfire and it sounds great.. Go on the sportsman guncentre website.. In to the gun and scroll down to see the 3 videos.. It looks to be the dogs dangleys Cz457 mtr - I did quiet a bit of researching and I think it’s a very good factory gun for the money (before anschutz territory) as I mentioned before the action is used by dolphin guns for their elr 22s, I actually spoke with mik there about a lijia barre for it, and he said mine looks to be shooting well and even the lijia probably couldn’t beat the way it’s shooting currently... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One on top of two Posted February 27, 2021 Report Share Posted February 27, 2021 Well today was a bit of a disappointment, i has to abandon my testing due to getting a call from from next door farm with hare coursers , so it was a throw the rifle back in its case and in back of truck and then spent the next 2 hrs sat blocking a track off ( there was 8 of us from 3 farms all Blocking and entrance/exit ) until the police turned up . Anyway I was bored by then so called it a day . I had jobs to do in afternoon anyway , soooo going to have another go tomorrow . Today started so well to . so much for no excuses ☺️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One on top of two Posted February 27, 2021 Report Share Posted February 27, 2021 Here’s Mik’s own CZ457 i had a little play on my last visit at the end last year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No i deer Posted February 27, 2021 Report Share Posted February 27, 2021 Very Gucci 🤩 I shoot f class with Mik.. The CZ 457 LR on them videos sounded very appealing with the 20 inch barrel.. I don't want a long barrelled 22lr. How much would that 22 Mik built cost.... Shame your testing was interrupted 🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One on top of two Posted February 27, 2021 Report Share Posted February 27, 2021 I’m a big fan of the CZ family , I have never owned one that couldn’t shoot . yeah I know , what a pain still they where caught so at least some good came out of it . Fingers crossed the Rozzers will have enough on them to prosecute. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinBR Posted February 27, 2021 Report Share Posted February 27, 2021 Got this to have a go at some paper punching. Initial trials are proving fruitful with SK match. Though to be fair shooting at 100 yards in a breeze and 2 degrees with cold hands is never a good recipe for accuracy. Anschutz 1761 silhouette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer rick Posted February 27, 2021 Report Share Posted February 27, 2021 16 minutes ago, ColinBR said: Got this to have a go at some paper punching. Initial trials are proving fruitful with SK match. Though to be fair shooting at 100 yards in a breeze and 2 degrees with cold hands is never a good recipe for accuracy. Anschutz 1761 silhouette Lovely looking set up, look forward to seeing the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One on top of two Posted February 27, 2021 Report Share Posted February 27, 2021 SNAP !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No i deer Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 Nice style but I'd have to spray it green.. I'm not into wooden stocks 😁. I do want one of the CZ457 long range 22's I need one 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1066 Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 20 hours ago, Farmer rick said: As mentioned in my posts before, I have a issue with eley subs going super sonic, so went out with a friend whilst zeroing the 222 and decided put some eley .22 through their cz452 whilst we were out for comparison, 55yrds low wind 5mph, 8deg c with interesting results: my rifle - cz 457 mtr test gun - cz 452 - same as you I believe @No i deer both moderated etc... all reports from the 452 where quiet and sub sonic.... 457 all loud and super sonic... tested with eley match also and the same acoustics were heard. so I can only conclude that the match chamber is in-fact producing a higher pressure that a “standard” chamber and causing a increase in velocity. As mentioned before rws subs are absolutely fine, stay subsonic but not quite as good grouping as the eley subs. eley subs: as many have said they don’t shoot well in their guns... cz 452 - dreadful, around 1.4” (could be barrel acclimatising) cz457 mtr - great: around 0.3” Eley match: cz 452 - 0.5” (one flyer not counted benefit of the doubt as barrel acclimatising) c457 - 0.4” (one pulled low) Cci subs: cz452 only - 0.7” but again a lot of swapping ammo around maybe not fair... From this is can say that there is a significant different in the eley subs between the 452 & 457... which could be down to chambering.... But the match seem to perform well in both. It would have been interesting to have put them through the chrony. I think ignition is more of a factor here, between the 452 and the 457 rather than the chamber. About half of the potential accuracy with the .22lr seems to be attributed to the chamber/leade/lock-up/ignition. The shape, depth and position of the firing pin strike on the rim has a considerable influence in velocity. The firing pin spring in the 452 is possibly 20 years old - If the bolt is removed for storage the spring is under full compression almost all of the time. I have a lilja match barrel on my Sako Finnfire P94S but if I was thinking of fitting one to a CZ I would start with the 452 action rather than the later 455 series. The 452 has a proper locking lug, the 455+ only uses the bolt handle as a locking lug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No i deer Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 I never take my bolts out only for cleaning lubing etc unless I go in home and not put rifles away strait away.. I take the bolt/bolts out and put them in my pocket or holster and when I put them away I decock them.. People have a tendency to forget the bolts when they go out shooting not being kept in the rifle.. Triggersqueezer did that very thing this morning 🤪 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One on top of two Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 Well I have finally got round to having a play and continuing from yesterday’s interrupted session. was rather foggy so I had to change out the targets for something I could actually see. I had so 50 meter mc queen’s target I scanned a while back that I keep in the truck for general messing about. So all was good. Will post up result later. I shot 4 targets at 50m and 4 at 100m no excuses they are what they are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer rick Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 1 hour ago, 1066 said: It would have been interesting to have put them through the chrony. I think ignition is more of a factor here, between the 452 and the 457 rather than the chamber. About half of the potential accuracy with the .22lr seems to be attributed to the chamber/leade/lock-up/ignition. The shape, depth and position of the firing pin strike on the rim has a considerable influence in velocity. The firing pin spring in the 452 is possibly 20 years old - If the bolt is removed for storage the spring is under full compression almost all of the time. I have a lilja match barrel on my Sako Finnfire P94S but if I was thinking of fitting one to a CZ I would start with the 452 action rather than the later 455 series. The 452 has a proper locking lug, the 455+ only uses the bolt handle as a locking lug. This is interesting... so what actually happens with the ignition / strike to cause the variation? Also apparently the 457 spring is 30% weaker than the 455 to help with accuracy so the tech gumph says... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer rick Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 1 hour ago, One on top of two said: Well I have finally got round to having a play and continuing from yesterday’s interrupted session. was rather foggy so I had to change out the targets for something I could actually see. I had so 50 meter mc queen’s target I scanned a while back that I keep in the truck for general messing about. So all was good. Will post up result later. I shot 4 targets at 50m and 4 at 100m no excuses they are what they are Looking forward to seeing the results! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One on top of two Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 It’s nothing groundbreaking Rick 🤔😳 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer rick Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 38 minutes ago, One on top of two said: It’s nothing groundbreaking Rick 🤔😳 Shooting in that fog I’d struggle to see the target!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1066 Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 17 minutes ago, Farmer rick said: This is interesting... so what actually happens with the ignition / strike to cause the variation? Also apparently the 457 spring is 30% weaker than the 455 to help with accuracy so the tech gumph says... Some while ago I asked Bill Calfee (via his website) why he didn't rate the Sako Finnfire action very highly as the basis for a custom benchrest rifle. The two main reasons he stated was the ignition and the fact it didn't have a screw on barrel. He went on to explain how very important every aspect of the ignition phase was to get consistent ignition, from the shape, where it strikes on the rim, depth of strike, the power, rebound spring oscillation, spring pre-load, weight/friction of the firing pin etc. Remember, we are talking about extreme accuracy here where every little detail make a difference - a bit like a F1 car or tuning a two stroke motorcycle engine - little bits all add up. According to Calfee the ideal firing pin should be a chisel shape, striking just inside the rim with the face ground at a shallow angle so the inboard tip of the firing pin strikes the case first. This initial dent from the tip of the firing pin happens a millisec before ignition. This dent forms a ramp on the inside of the case and deflects the ignition flash along the length of powder resulting in a cleaner and more consistent burn. (Bill Clafee built .22lr benchrest rifles have won more International, National and state records that all other .22lr benchrest rifle builders put together) Just one thread from Rimfire benchrest forum.Firing pin energy vs accuracy (benchrest.com) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer rick Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 Will have a read! 34 minutes ago, 1066 said: Some while ago I asked Bill Calfee (via his website) why he didn't rate the Sako Finnfire action very highly as the basis for a custom benchrest rifle. The two main reasons he stated was the ignition and the fact it didn't have a screw on barrel. He went on to explain how very important every aspect of the ignition phase was to get consistent ignition, from the shape, where it strikes on the rim, depth of strike, the power, rebound spring oscillation, spring pre-load, weight/friction of the firing pin etc. Remember, we are talking about extreme accuracy here where every little detail make a difference - a bit like a F1 car or tuning a two stroke motorcycle engine - little bits all add up. According to Calfee the ideal firing pin should be a chisel shape, striking just inside the rim with the face ground at a shallow angle so the inboard tip of the firing pin strikes the case first. This initial dent from the tip of the firing pin happens a millisec before ignition. This dent forms a ramp on the inside of the case and deflects the ignition flash along the length of powder resulting in a cleaner and more consistent burn. (Bill Clafee built .22lr benchrest rifles have won more International, National and state records that all other .22lr benchrest rifle builders put together) Just one thread from Rimfire benchrest forum.Firing pin energy vs accuracy (benchrest.com) thanks for the info. I have seen so of the br shooters stateside modifying the shape / profile of the 457 to create a almost pyramid shape. I think all CZ have the rectangular one that hits / cuts right across the rim (photo attached) hence the USA guys modifying its. I’ll see if I can find the thread about it. but would the ignition cause such a dramatic difference in speed, I did chrono some rounds a few weeks ago and sent the results to eley: both subs and match were well over the stated velocities with subs actually averaging faster than the match - 1096fps with highs of 1113, match averaged 1086. mean averages for match are 1040-1085 subs - 1000-1040fps so hugely different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinBR Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 17 hours ago, One on top of two said: SNAP !! Yep. Only the action is different. Looks like the barrel is the same too. Really happy with the way it shoots especially at distance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1066 Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 30 minutes ago, Farmer rick said: Will have a read! thanks for the info. I have seen so of the br shooters stateside modifying the shape / profile of the 457 to create a almost pyramid shape. I think all CZ have the rectangular one that hits / cuts right across the rim (photo attached) hence the USA guys modifying its. I’ll see if I can find the thread about it. but would the ignition cause such a dramatic difference in speed, I did chrono some rounds a few weeks ago and sent the results to eley: both subs and match were well over the stated velocities with subs actually averaging faster than the match - 1096fps with highs of 1113, match averaged 1086. mean averages for match are 1040-1085 subs - 1000-1040fps so hugely different. When you look at those cases they all look evenly struck and all went bank - Under normal circumstances no one would give them a second thought. If you think a little deeper and think how a rimfire case is formed - The case has been formed so already work hardened to a certain extent and the extreme edge, 10 thou thick is actually a solid bit of brass. Do we want to expend any available energy crushing a solid bit of brass. There's no priming compound in the extreme edge so a custom benchrest rifle could well have the face of the pin angled slightly to tend to squeeze the priming compound towards the outer edge then be ignited. Take a look at the pictures half way down this page - A new idea, a lot of work going on searching for more consistent rimfire ignition. Sako Quad .22lr (takilta.fi) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer rick Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 7 minutes ago, 1066 said: When you look at those cases they all look evenly struck and all went bank - Under normal circumstances no one would give them a second thought. If you think a little deeper and think how a rimfire case is formed - The case has been formed so already work hardened to a certain extent and the extreme edge, 10 thou thick is actually a solid bit of brass. Do we want to expend any available energy crushing a solid bit of brass. There's no priming compound in the extreme edge so a custom benchrest rifle could well have the face of the pin angled slightly to tend to squeeze the priming compound towards the outer edge then be ignited. Take a look at the pictures half way down this page - A new idea, a lot of work going on searching for more consistent rimfire ignition. Sako Quad .22lr (takilta.fi) Thanks for the article, here is what the USA guys are up to reproducing thier own pins in the cz https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1162011&=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer rick Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 I’m trying to find a spare cz 457 pin that I can have a experiment with, but seem to be like hens teeth! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1066 Posted February 28, 2021 Report Share Posted February 28, 2021 44 minutes ago, Farmer rick said: Thanks for the article, here is what the USA guys are up to reproducing thier own pins in the cz https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1162011&=1 Ahh yes, that's interesting. I got to say, the CZ striker is hardy a thing of beauty, if you were trying to design the perfect firing pin I don't think that's how it would look. There are arguments about whether the strike should be at 12 or 6 o'clock and whether the spring should go around the pin or the pin around the spring. There's no doubt an action with good ignition leads to more consistent velocity which must pay dividends at longer ranges. Even with good quality .22lr ammunition we regularly see a ES of 20-40fps - this, in percentage terms would equate to something like 100fps in a centrefire round. Careful centrefire hand loaders are now getting ES down in single figures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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