Moorlander Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 I just noticed the official Tikka website is showing the USD prices , now I know the retail side of the UK gun trade rarely make a clear 20% margin so I was wondering how UK importers / distributors justify their large mark ups ?, theres no import duties due (currently anyway) on firearms from EU countries and shipping would be considerably less to the UK than to the US, just another case of rip off Britain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCetrizine Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 Firstly ,US prices don't include sales tax as that is different per state. UK prices include VAT at 20%. Secondly, shipping is actually less to the US because of the numbers involved. One full shipping container costs less per rifle than a container with a few dozen rifles and a lot of empty space. There is a higher price to pay in the UK due to the smaller market but it's not actually that much higher when you understand the details. Rip off Britain is a myth perpetuated by tabloid newspapers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 1 hour ago, MrCetirizine said: Firstly ,US prices don't include sales tax as that is different per state. UK prices include VAT at 20%. Also, there is no proof law in the USA - the rifle is sold as received. Our distributors often have to proof imported rifles and shotguns depending on their origins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Pimp Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 Moorlander - it comes down to a thing called 'market forces'. I was surprised to find, on a visit to Scandinavia, that the Fins were paying more than us for their Lapua stuff and Vit powders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 Go and buy your petrol in France Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy W Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 If you've ever run a business and paid building rent, office furniture, computers, printers, photocopiers, business rates, wages, employers NI, pensions, utilities, security, large amounts of stock (just in case people want it, because they will always ask for the thing you don't have), and then also allow for the retailer's mark up - the actual margins for the wholesalers aren't great. Unfortunately everyone wants something for nothing these days. You only have to look at wanted ads on shooting sites, where people write 'Wanted Cheap Good Quality Scope/Dies/Press/Mod/Widget etc etc. Or, the question 'What good quality 'X' can I buy cheap. The enjoyment of owning something of quality always outlasts the euphoria of getting a bargain price! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moorlander Posted January 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 2 hours ago, Laurie said: Our distributors often have to proof imported rifles and shotguns depending on their origins. But not from Finland , its a CIP country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moorlander Posted January 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 3 hours ago, MrCetirizine said: Firstly ,US prices don't include sales tax as that is different per state. UK prices include VAT at 20%. Secondly, shipping is actually less to the US because of the numbers involved. One full shipping container costs less per rifle than a container with a few dozen rifles and a lot of empty space. There is a higher price to pay in the UK due to the smaller market but it's not actually that much higher when you understand the details. Rip off Britain is a myth perpetuated by tabloid newspapers. A lot of firearms are flown into the UK from the EU , around just £35.00 for one firearm so if a small distributor in the UK only buys 10 it could come down to £25 ea, and with 20% VAT added those Tikkas would only be around £875.00 retail price , the current UK price seems to be a fraction under £1200.00 Plus dont forget the prices on the Tikka site are MSRP so in the US they will no doubt be discounted further . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moorlander Posted January 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Roy W said: If you've ever run a business and paid building rent, office furniture, computers, printers, photocopiers, business rates, wages, employers NI, pensions, utilities, security, large amounts of stock (just in case people want it, because they will always ask for the thing you don't have), and then also allow for the retailer's mark up - the actual margins for the wholesalers aren't great. Unfortunately everyone wants something for nothing these days. You only have to look at wanted ads on shooting sites, where people write 'Wanted Cheap Good Quality Scope/Dies/Press/Mod/Widget etc etc. Or, the question 'What good quality 'X' can I buy cheap. The enjoyment of owning something of quality always outlasts the euphoria of getting a bargain price! Agreed but all that also applies to the US plus Ive waited six months for Tikka`s in the past so not always in the UK warehouse. The Tikka distributor doesn't appear to be roughing it GMK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moorlander Posted January 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 1 hour ago, bradders said: Go and buy your petrol in France Not that different and diesel is slightly cheaper than here yet still the gilet jaune`s are not happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 Tikka T3x Tac A1 in Good ol' US of A $1900 https://www.tikka.fi/en-us/rifles/tikka-t3x/t3x-tac-a1 Tikka T3x Tac A1 in Not Rip Off France €2490 https://www.tikka.fi/en-us/rifles/tikka-t3x/t3x-tac-a1 Bon Voyage Tikka T3x Tac 1 Deutschland Über Alles €2688 https://www.manfred-alberts.de/katalog/2019/#p=102 Auf Weidersehn Tikka T3x A1 in Rip Off Britain £1710 https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/rifles/tikka/bolt-action/6-5mm-creedmoor/t3x-tac-181116140857001 God Save the Meghan Markle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Re-Pete Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 "The quality remains long after the tears over the price are forgotten".....................so they say. Boyd's $137 stocks appear to be selling for £217+ at the distributor over here...........at $1.2/£, that's close to 100% mark-up. I'd much rather buy British, if only they made what I actually wanted.......... Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moorlander Posted January 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 The low volume sales in the UK argument for higher prices does not really stack up , in Aussie they are similar to USA prices Tikka T3x varmint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moorlander Posted January 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 56 minutes ago, bradders said: Tikka T3x Tac A1 in Good ol' US of A $1900 https://www.tikka.fi/en-us/rifles/tikka-t3x/t3x-tac-a1 Tikka T3x Tac A1 in Not Rip Off France €2490 https://www.tikka.fi/en-us/rifles/tikka-t3x/t3x-tac-a1 Bon Voyage Tikka T3x Tac 1 Deutschland Über Alles €2688 https://www.manfred-alberts.de/katalog/2019/#p=102 Auf Weidersehn Tikka T3x A1 in Rip Off Britain £1710 https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/rifles/tikka/bolt-action/6-5mm-creedmoor/t3x-tac-181116140857001 God Save the Meghan Markle That does make it look like Tikka/Sako are controlling/fixing distributor prices , guess who owns GMK ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy W Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Moorlander said: That does make it look like Tikka/Sako are controlling/fixing distributor prices , guess who owns GMK ..... GMK is owned by Beretta (60%) and 40% by the Waktare family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moorlander Posted January 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 8 minutes ago, Roy W said: GMK is owned by Beretta (60%) and 40% by the Waktare family Who also own Sako /Tikka and a shed load of other gun makers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 16 minutes ago, Roy W said: GMK is owned by Beretta (60%) and 40% by the Waktare family Beretta own Sako/Tikka It's all cobblers though and is regularly used as a way to attack the gun trade and accuse them of being rip off merchants when the facts presented actually show us as being cheaper in many ways Petrol in France is about 20p/litre more expensive than here and another good example is cars A VW Golf R like mine has a basic OTR price of £31,395 in the UK. That includes VAT and 1st year road tax (about £500) The same car in the US is $41,000, and with state tax of about 7% is £34,725 or so, not including £500 non applicable road tax, which would take the US cost to £35,225, or nearly £4k more Also take into consideration that when you deduct VAT, transport, PDI and road tax, Distributor/importer and retailer mark-ups, that same car is roughly £14,000 OTD at the factory, so about 120% mark-up before it gets to your driveway....but we don't grumble about that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldie Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 Neither the gun wholesaler or retailer should make a profit in the UK. we dont need to eat, shoe our kids or take foreign holidays , like everyone else. Neither do we need time off etc. we should work for nothing, and be damned grateful for it. The british shooting public have thought this way for years....quiet laugable really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moorlander Posted January 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 hour ago, baldie said: Neither the gun wholesaler or retailer should make a profit in the UK. we dont need to eat, shoe our kids or take foreign holidays , like everyone else. Neither do we need time off etc. we should work for nothing, and be damned grateful for it. The british shooting public have thought this way for years....quiet laugable really. I've owned several retail businesses over the years and it does seem to be like you say in all retail, customers moan and say they can buy an item a pound cheaper from a shop 20 miles away and so on, however my point is about the importers / distributors of guns, there is no good reason why European made firearms should be more expensive in the UK/ Europe than they are in the US/Canada/Aussie who all have to pay import duties , I believe it's price fixing / controlling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCetrizine Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 20% VAT vs 10% sales tax in Australia and typically 7% in the US makes a notable difference to the final price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breacher Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 How does the cost of an Accuracy International Rifle built in the UK compare between USA and UK ? Or a Schmidt Bender scope built in Germany compare between USA and Germany ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 The selling price isn't the only factor. In the car industry dealers make small margins (sometimes negative) but they make bonuses on volume. Could this be at work in the USA due to sales volume? Lower selling prices due to lower margins with other financial arrangements squaring the business? Without a clear understanding of the whole of the business cycle it's not easy to see who's making what. I don't begrudge my local dealer making a decent living, I rely on him to be there when I need stuff and I know he's not gouging me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 People are living in a Cloud Cuckoo Land, gun prices are only one aspect of things I have been travelling to the US almost annually for the last 18 years, and we have seen the gradual increase in prices there to the extent that not much is cheaper in the States anymore Take a 6 pack of Stella for example, here it's about £4.99 from Tescos, in the US you're looking at around $15...and Australia is about the same, if not more Go into a shop in America and buy a bar of chocolate such as a Mars Bar, it'll cost you about $2, here you can get 4 for £1.50 in your local Supermarket Yes some places and items here are more expensive than you would like, but you have the option of paying the extra or not buying it at all...no one is being forced This is why I drive a Golf and not an expensive Aston Martin....although in its defence the Golf is a far better car 🙂 The cost of your Tikka rifle will pale into insignificance when you add up the cost of ammo you shoot through it in its lifetime Tikka....around £1000, 6000rds Creedmoor ammo, about £7200 Arrividerci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catch-22 Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 Personally I don't believe the issue lies with the local retailers, they're simply stocking items based on prices set by the main importer/distributor. In many instances their hands are tied. Of course your local retailer has to make a living. Their margins are usually very small, so I begrudge them nothing and do support where possible. However I do believe the issue lies at heart with the main importer/distributor, in our case it's GMK for many products brought into the UK. Through their Beretta ownership and influence they also happen to be a key European distributor, giving them a huge monopoly share and control over most goods bought and sold. Because they are the monopoly, they set the prices and through their influence, remove the possibility for competition to work with manufactures and source products directly for the consumer. GMK has no concern for the consumer, like your friendly local retailer does, they're simply in it for the profit. I've noticed on the continent some key distributors do offer products at lower prices than here in the U.K. Most of the time that's due to the ability to buy in bulk. But this is quickly being discouraged or simply no longer an option in the UK because there's more profit to be had by not selling in bulk. Powder is a good example. You used to get Viht powders in 20kg bags for dealers or 3.5kg pots for the end customer, but this has now all gone - it's all 1kg tubs now. More profit to be had in 1kg tubs - the importer clearly removing the option for savings to be passed on to the consumer through bulk buying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catch-22 Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 8 minutes ago, bradders said: Take a 6 pack of Stella for example, here it's about £4.99 from Tescos, in the US you're looking at around $15...and Australia is about the same, if not more But that's because for some reason people in the US believe Stella to be the holy grail of imported beers and so market and cost it as such, not realising it's actually just pi$$ water. But coming from a country that loves Bud, Coors and their respective 'lite' versions...what can one expect! 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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