22 LR Average Group from your gun

[Farmer rick]

Do you mean 452?

the chassis is a oryx, works well but to be honest the walnut stock was pretty good as it had pillar bedding.

Don’t think they do one for the 452

 

[No i deer]

Yeah CZ452 

[No i deer]

Came across this on accurate shooter.. a fancy bells and whistles rifle benchrested in what looks a tunnel range. 55 different brands of ammo tested and over 4000 shots fired..

5 x 5 shot groups at each range.

Eley match did well on all 3 disrances and was top at 100yds..

[Farmer rick]

That’s really interesting, I think eley holds a few records too and gold medals.
 

this is the best 5 I’ve shot with match, and I’m going to say that the flyer will definitely be partly me... this is at 55yrds.

 

[bowji john]

This a while ago but these images are typical of my CZ 452 @ 100m using Gecco semi-auto

 

[No i deer]

1 hour ago, Farmer rick said:

That’s really interesting, I think eley holds a few records too and gold medals.
 

this is the best 5 I’ve shot with match, and I’m going to say that the flyer will definitely be partly me... this is at 55yrds.

 

You got over excited 🤣😂🤪

[No i deer]

Shooting the 22 is challenging unless your shooting a benchrest rifle.

Looking at the accurate shooter write-up 0.455 was the best 5 x 5 shot group average at 100yds with that rifle so off the bipod we're doing ok shooting 0.6/0.7 groups.

My average over 6 groups was 1.033 oai. It looked to be 1 shot out of each group that opened It up 🙄. Keeps interesting and you trying..

As the lockdown eases we will be resuming f class shooting out to 1200yds again..

Looking forward to it 🤩

[Farmer rick]

43 minutes ago, No i deer said:

ou got over excited 🤣😂🤪

I’ve heard that before!

interestingly on the one out of five, give this and try and see if it helps:

on the last round of 5, keep the case chambered, reload the mag and insert. Then eject the case. It doesn’t work every time, but I have found that it ensures every bullet is “marked” consistently, and as the bullet heads are really soft and the wax it seems to improve consistency a little... or psychologically at least!!!

[Farmer rick]

Another one I’ve found, certainly with the rws subs hp- they is real inconsistency with the hollow pints being filled with wax, some are hollow others full - pic attached, simply sorting them into empty and full makes a big difference, poi changes a little between the 2 but they group much better.

 

[brown dog]

1 minute ago, Farmer rick said:

interestingly on the one out of five, give this and try and see if it helps:

on the last round of 5, keep the case chambered, reload the mag and insert. Then eject the case. It doesn’t work every time, but I have found that it ensures every bullet is “marked” consistently, and as the bullet heads are really soft and the wax it seems to improve consistency a little... or psychologically at least!!!

Interesting!

Or only shoot 4 shot groups from 5rd mags?!

 

[Farmer rick]

Then your 4th would be the flyer! What you need is a 7round mag and discount the first shot and last shot, so theoretically the middle five will have the same marks.

I need to do some more experimenting, the weathers cold at the mo, so I don’t think anything is as consistent as it could be. I read many br shooters In the states don’t like shooting less than 10deg c.

I experimented with trying to leave each shot a specific time (30 sec) for heat and gas dispersal etc, I would say it improved a little, but at 0deg don’t think it helped!

 I think the mod might have a part to play in some consistency also, which might be interesting to see the difference with and without.

[fourtyvoats]

1 hour ago, No i deer said:

Shooting the 22 is challenging unless your shooting a benchrest rifle.

Looking at the accurate shooter write-up 0.455 was the best 5 x 5 shot group average at 100yds with that rifle so off the bipod we're doing ok shooting 0.6/0.7 groups.

My average over 6 groups was 1.033 oai. It looked to be 1 shot out of each group that opened It up 🙄. Keeps interesting and you trying..

As the lockdown eases we will be resuming f class shooting out to 1200yds again..

Looking forward to it 🤩

It is even harder if you are shooting a bench rest rifle in a competition as each rifle set up predicates a certain accuracy expectation. The most accurate expectation of group size is when you shoot a BR rifle. Therefore the challenge is much higher than when you shoot a semi auto with stingers. The rifle will do it's bit but can you?

[No i deer]

1 hour ago, Farmer rick said:

Another one I’ve found, certainly with the rws subs hp- they is real inconsistency with the hollow pints being filled with wax, some are hollow others full - pic attached, simply sorting them into empty and full makes a big difference, poi changes a little between the 2 but they group much better.

 

I have noticed that but did nothing about it..

42gr winnie subs are like that.. I didn't notice that about the Norma subs but they probaly were.

I will try a few groups like that 👍

[No i deer]

1 hour ago, brown dog said:

Interesting!

Or only shoot 4 shot groups from 5rd mags?!

 

I nearly tried a group single feeding them

[No i deer]

1 hour ago, brown dog said:

Interesting!

Or only shoot 4 shot groups from 5rd mags?!

 

I use a 10 shot mag. Load up 5 each time or how many I intend to shoot in the group..

[No i deer]

56 minutes ago, fourtyvoats said:

It is even harder if you are shooting a bench rest rifle in a competition as each rifle set up predicates a certain accuracy expectation. The most accurate expectation of group size is when you shoot a BR rifle. Therefore the challenge is much higher than when you shoot a semi auto with stingers. The rifle will do it's bit but can you?

I'd have a good go 😁.

My accuracy expectations would be higher shooting benchrest than trying to shoot small off a pod with a 9 mag hunting scope

[No i deer]

1 hour ago, Farmer rick said:

I’ve heard that before!

interestingly on the one out of five, give this and try and see if it helps:

on the last round of 5, keep the case chambered, reload the mag and insert. Then eject the case. It doesn’t work every time, but I have found that it ensures every bullet is “marked” consistently, and as the bullet heads are really soft and the wax it seems to improve consistency a little... or psychologically at least!!!

What's the theory on this...

Are you saying extracting the case marks the bullet in the mag next in line to be chambered...??

[Farmer rick]

Precisely, if you cycle some rounds and see what you make of it.

The top round always slides over the bottom round too. But nothing slides over it. Plus the bolt on the other rounds etc.

have a look at voodoo guns, apparently they have a patented design that minimises contact of the bolt etc.

the match rounds seem to be a little “tougher” and mark less.

from reading around this a bit, seems the anschutz match action is pretty good too, and I guess that’s why the new cz is similar and dolphin custom rifles are using that for their 22 elr rifles.

also note that the new cz mags have a groove sit out of the front. So it seems marking can be a problem with 22lr... well at least people are spending £1000’s to minimise it... 

[1066]

If you're shooting .22lr  benchrest with a magazine fed rifle is common practice to single feed them, some rifles really gouge a track in the soft lead bullet as they are stripped from the mag.

[Farmer rick]

The eley subs are very clean and consistent. I am finding them grouping well, nearly on par with match... I known others find them terrible, but the shoot well. My only issue is that they aren’t sub sonic... which is kinda the point!!!

i shot the last few I had at about 9deg and some did go sub sonic but about 20% the rest were cracking! So many be they are a nice summer round in 15deg plus, so about 2 days a year!

 

[No i deer]

That's strange...

Is the 26 inch barrel getting more performance out of them 🤔.

I did think that all the powder is burnt way before it leaves a shorter barrel so it sounds like you have a dodgy batch..

I wish the eley subs would shoot in mine. I'd be happy with using any of the hollow point subs if they can nearly match the Eley match.

[No i deer]

9 hours ago, 1066 said:

If you're shooting .22lr  benchrest with a magazine fed rifle is common practice to single feed them, some rifles really gouge a track in the soft lead bullet as they are stripped from the mag.

Thanks.

It's not something that occurred to me..

Intrested to see if single loading them reduces the group size 😎.

Ah bullets rubbing together being cycled so damage to the bullet can occur top and bottom in the mag..

The bullet being fired launched through the barrel being cut by the grooves damage the bullet but on the bearing surface not the tip to the ogive.. a scuff could affect it's ballistic coefficiency.

[Twodogs]

14 hours ago, 1066 said:

If you're shooting .22lr  benchrest with a magazine fed rifle is common practice to single feed them, some rifles really gouge a track in the soft lead bullet as they are stripped from the mag.

👍 When shooting sporter class BR, which must be a mag fed rifle, rounds are always single fed, this not only negates potential damage but also gives the shooter a ‘feel’ of how the round seats, though not relevant unless you have a match grade chamber where the rifling engraves the bullet on loading. Try single loading and see if you can detect any differences even between same batch ammo.

All top end .22 target rifles whether Olympic or BR are single fed and without magazines, unless the rules call for a magazine fed rifle.

 

[Twodogs]

17 hours ago, Farmer rick said:

Then your 4th would be the flyer! What you need is a 7round mag and discount the first shot and last shot, so theoretically the middle five will have the same marks.

I need to do some more experimenting, the weathers cold at the mo, so I don’t think anything is as consistent as it could be. I read many br shooters In the states don’t like shooting less than 10deg c.

I experimented with trying to leave each shot a specific time (30 sec) for heat and gas dispersal etc, I would say it improved a little, but at 0deg don’t think it helped!

 I think the mod might have a part to play in some consistency also, which might be interesting to see the difference with and without.

Lapua do make .22 ammunition, their Polar line, specifically for biathlon’s and cold weather shooting.  

[1066]

4 hours ago, No i deer said:

Thanks.

It's not something that occurred to me..

Intrested to see if single loading them reduces the group size 😎.

Ah bullets rubbing together being cycled so damage to the bullet can occur top and bottom in the mag..

The bullet being fired launched through the barrel being cut by the grooves damage the bullet but on the bearing surface not the tip to the ogive.. a scuff could affect it's ballistic coefficiency.

Also, the very fact that, with a .22lr, when fed from a magazine the cartridge is fed into the chamber at an angle, the bullet striking the top of the chamber while the rim is still restrained with the mag lips.

Many magazine fed .22lr rifles used for club level competitions can be fitted with a single loader block, (sometimes stipulated in the rules):
This is a simple 3d printed CZ single loader block: