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Labradar recoil triggers


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Love my Labradar BUT.......  Missed shots due to low calibre report and / or suppressed use also not giving enough blast to trigger the onboard sensors ...driving me nuts.

I see US companies such as JKL and Piet  selling low-cost inertial triggers but know from experience that they either will not ship or the shipping more than doubles the cost!

These MUST be a simple build for someone like 1066 on here and I reckon that there will be a market albeit not a massive one.

Any thoughts or takers?

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Thank for the vote of confidence Dave - Yes, should be a simple bit of kit. I've never seen one by my guess is that it uses a small Piezo crystal disc to detect the vibration and the 3d printed housing is no problem.

However - the problem is....I don't have a Lab myself to play about with and, although there is one in the club I shoot with, I'm in the 70+ with bad lungs club so pretty much stuck at home.

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I believe the people in the  USA who make them have authorised a company in Germany to make and distribute them. The company in the US wouldn't at the time send outside of the USA.

Mine is sitting with a friend here in GB, hopefully I will be able to test soon.

my feeling is that it needs a quick release system so it can be quickly moved from one rifle to another, easily done if it works when mounted on a scope.

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9 minutes ago, Elwood said:

I believe the people in the  USA who make them have authorised a company in Germany to make and distribute them. The company in the US wouldn't at the time send outside of the USA.

Mine is sitting with a friend here in GB, hopefully I will be able to test soon.

my feeling is that it needs a quick release system so it can be quickly moved from one rifle to another, easily done if it works when mounted on a scope.

The trigger will be something simple.  If I had a copy of the Labrador schematic it would be simple to produce a trigger.  The trick is back-engineering their "airgun' adapter.  As 1066 suggests a piezo sensor would make sense but it may be interfaced in some manner to match to the LR interface socket.

Just need someone to offer up an airgun adapter for investigation (that may be destructive if it's sealed)

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Ah, ensuring an accurate muzzle exit for triggering instrumentation, the bane of my first job.

When using Doppler radars we generally used flash, though sometimes an acoustic (external pressure) gauge, or simply the increase in the radar signal.

The problem with small arms, and for my old job proof shot and other similar brick-like projectiles, is that the projectiles have very high drag. If you are a few milliseconds out in your triggering it can totally screwup the calculation of the muzzle velocity (MV). Even for low drag projectiles, it can cause inaccurate MV calculation. If you are flash-radiographing, or taking high-speed digital photos of the projectile in flight, end up partially or totally missing the projectile. This is not good if the projectile fired costs tens, or hundreds of thousands of pounds, or they only have a few of them.

For many small arms, a flash detector would seem to be best, as it's non-contact and simple to use. The problem is that it's susceptible to preflash and no good for revolvers though due to the cylinder gap and the rather copious amount of hot gas escaping from the cylinder gap before the projectile exits.

Acoustic detectors would seem the next choice, but they can have similar pretriggering problems, need to be adjusted to metrological conditions and have the distance offset accurately measured.

Using the increase in the radar signal to trigger the device has many problems, such as being is susceptible to pretriggering from noise, or other radar signals, and for small guns, especially with suppressors, late or no triggering.

I did use other triggering methods, such as ionisation probes, make wires, break wires, foil screens, pressure gauges, radar, and strain gauges. The best for guns was a strain gauge or pressure gauge near the muzzle. The former glued to the barrel surface, the latter, in this case, screwed into a threaded hole in the barrel. Not really practical for home use.

I never used and accelerometer to trigger devices for measuring the MV of a gun. I doubt it would be accurate enough frankly as how do you know at which point the bullet has exited?

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Triggering issues are why I let the Labradar go and stuck with the Magnetospeed, rail mounted to the side of the barrel. Comparison tests alongside Labradar showed consistency of readings albeit slightly higher than than the Labradar. 

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I made something similar a while ago only more complicated than required here. This was a set-up for air rifle/pistol training using a laser. The idea is that it would fit on any rifle/pistol so it could be used for practice with a laser target with no modification to the pistol.  It has a rechargeable 5v battery pack the small sensor unit and the laser attachment. The sensor (50x20x20) contains a piezo disc, a Arduino nano micro processor and an amplifier. The sensor has a small trimmer potentiometer to adjust sensitivity. When the pistol/rifle is dry fired, the sensor "hears" the click, send the signal to the amplifier, the amplified signal goes to the microprocessor that sends a timed pulse to the laser. The sensor and battery pack is held in place with small disc magnets.

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I used something similar for this little rifle I made for my grandsons.

 

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2 hours ago, DaveT said:

Love my Labradar BUT.......  Missed shots due to low calibre report and / or suppressed use also not giving enough blast to trigger the onboard sensors ...driving me nuts.

I see US companies such as JKL and Piet  selling low-cost inertial triggers but know from experience that they either will not ship or the shipping more than doubles the cost!

These MUST be a simple build for someone like 1066 on here and I reckon that there will be a market albeit not a massive one.

Any thoughts or takers?

I bought one of these recoil triggers from Germany. The guy is make copies or the original from USA with the owners permission.

I found out about them on Facebook Labrador owners group. Delivery was 4 days and in total cost around 45 euros. Here's the link to the post 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2121379321415302/permalink/2617353658484530/

Unfortunately I have not been able to test it yet due to the shooting restrictions. But all the feedback I've found has been superb.

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1 hour ago, John MH said:

Triggering issues are why I let the Labradar go and stuck with the Magnetospeed, rail mounted to the side of the barrel. Comparison tests alongside Labradar showed consistency of readings albeit slightly higher than than the Labradar. 

0C0AB620-52C8-49D1-8D25-0C0CF59E620F.jpeg

Like the idea, I may copy it.  Do you think a carbon fibre tube would be as good as your setup ?

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9 minutes ago, miki said:

Scuse my ignoramce but what's wrong with attaching the Magnetospeed to the rifle/barrel itself ?

adding the chrono' to the barrel changes barrel harmonics so point of aim and group size,  if you can afford to do MV and grouping separately then it's largely a non-issue.   I just think the Mv of the bullets you're looking at as they group is better so mounting off the barrel does that nicely

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To John M-H.......  I also have a Magnetospeed but got fed up with the faff of fitting it.......  as a chrono I agree it works really well. I like your setup but I have various stocks and don't want multiple rigs.

 

To 1066 re the trigger he made.....wow....that tech is way over my head!  Impressed!

 

To 1 in 8 twist..... thanks for the heads up re German supplier...I will, take a look see.

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Can't view the FB link until membership approved!

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57 minutes ago, Popsbengo said:

adding the chrono' to the barrel changes barrel harmonics so point of aim and group size,  if you can afford to do MV and grouping separately then it's largely a non-issue.   I just think the Mv of the bullets you're looking at as they group is better so mounting off the barrel does that nicely

Cheers, interesting. I use my MagS' simply to measure the MV, finding a plateau for load development and then remove it for fine tuning the groups, followed by re-attaching to measure the MV to compare results with QL and GRT.

More faffing about I guess but isn't that part of the fun :)

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@1066  you may be interested in this http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slva040/slva040.pdf

I'm guessing but it would look a likely candidate for the Labrador sensor.  Possibly the three ways on the plug are +V, SG and input?  Poss 5v or there's a regulator onboard the sensor?

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1 hour ago, Popsbengo said:

@1066  you may be interested in this http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slva040/slva040.pdf

I'm guessing but it would look a likely candidate for the Labrador sensor.  Possibly the three ways on the plug are +V, SG and input?  Poss 5v or there's a regulator onboard the sensor?

It looks like that would work - but a lot more involved than necessary I would think, (apart from being obsolete and $33 a pop :)) I'd either need a Labradar to check the in/out or a trigger it's self.

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1 hour ago, 1066 said:

It looks like that would work - but a lot more involved than necessary I would think, (apart from being obsolete and $33 a pop :)) I'd either need a Labradar to check the in/out or a trigger it's self.

I've seen some more available bits for a few quid.  I'll look further

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  • 1 month later...

Hello Gentlemen

I manufacture this little device here in South Africa, Mr Greg in USA gave me some guidence.

I call the RAT, Recoil Activation Trigger. This device will help to get 100% readings with LabRadar if you shooting suppressed or with Muzzle break. Very small, will not affect your POI. You strap on your rifle, plug the unit in your Microphone jack, aim the LabRadar to your target and shoot. 
The other advantage of the RAT, you don't have to keep LabRadar there in the muzzle blast, you can place the LabRadar within arm reach up to 0.5m to right or left of rifle, will still record the shots.
This very small, only 27mm long by 11mm by 15mm.

With unit get LabRadar sight, 2 velcro straps.

All form $50

I can ship worldwide. 
Mods please let me know if the post is not allowed. 

Regards

Morne van der Merwe

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53 minutes ago, Popsbengo said:

What would be the UK shipped price in £ please?

 

At the moment £32, but hopefully by tomorrow will better deal with DHL. I am hoping to cost will come down to at least £20

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