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foxing2night

Under one inch at 600 yards

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Fantastic result, after a bit of a lay-off after having back surgery, I managed to get two new uk records, one for five shots under one inch and an agg for four targets of 1.8 inches. Rifle used my accuracy International chambered in 6.5x47 barrel smithed by Alan Maughan custom rifles.

got to be one of the best days at the Diggle 

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Great shooting Darrel, well done. Thats some achievement to break the benchrest 1" barrier for the first time in the UK.

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Excellent shooting, I do have a question on the use of the Shotmarker (I have one and they are excellent) when setting 'Records' given that the stated accuracy of the system is to within approx 1/4" depending on wind conditions (affecting the target not the bullet); would record claimed on a Shotmarker be valid or would it have to be verified on paper (difficult to do if the target has multiple hits on it?

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I was there and it was fantastic shooting by Daryl (as usual!).

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4 hours ago, John MH said:

Excellent shooting, I do have a question on the use of the Shotmarker (I have one and they are excellent) when setting 'Records' given that the stated accuracy of the system is to within approx 1/4" depending on wind conditions (affecting the target not the bullet); would record claimed on a Shotmarker be valid or would it have to be verified on paper (difficult to do if the target has multiple hits on it?

Yes - nothing like verifying the shots on a paper target - though even this can be subject to errors.

I once remember a group being shot on a very wet target at 1000 yds.  It was measured by butts using a digital caliper equipped with spikes to go through the bullet-holes.  But, the wet target had 'wrinkles' and when we got the target back to the Range House after the shoot for a proper measure and flattened it out - the group was about a quarter-inch bigger. Clearly the real group size was 'as measured' in butts but the paper said different....

Once we started using electronic targets, we have to accept the result - though I think we said we would draw a line under the existing paper-target records and preserve them.

It was a still day for Darrel's shoot (as still as we get at Diggle) so I don't think the targets were affected too much by the wind. Over the Christmas downtime we are going to do some tests to establish the effect of the target 'tilting' due to the effect of wind.

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20 hours ago, John MH said:

Excellent shooting, I do have a question on the use of the Shotmarker (I have one and they are excellent) when setting 'Records' given that the stated accuracy of the system is to within approx 1/4" depending on wind conditions (affecting the target not the bullet); would record claimed on a Shotmarker be valid or would it have to be verified on paper (difficult to do if the target has multiple hits on it?

I think that I am right in saying that the target system measures in metric and not as you have stated (imperial) for this very reason metric gives a better  accurate reading!!

but at the end of the day it is the same for every shooter. Perhaps someone will chirp in and give us some figures??

Darrel

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4 hours ago, foxing2night said:

I think that I am right in saying that the target system measures in metric and not as you have stated (imperial) for this very reason metric gives a better  accurate reading!!

but at the end of the day it is the same for every shooter. Perhaps someone will chirp in and give us some figures??

Darrel

Taken from the Shotmarker website:

Quote

Real-world accuracy will be limited by motion of the sensors and the air while shots are being detected. Typically, every shot will be reported within a few millimeters, with ideal performance being realized on a stable frame in calm conditions.

In general, a standard long range 6x6 frame that is secured from movement in the wind should be able to maintain accuracy within 1/4", although technically this is dependent on the wind conditions. To put it simply, if the shooter has a hard time keeping the shots in the black, the accuracy of the e-target system will not be a significant concern.

Darrel please don't think I'm deriding your achievement I merely questioned the validity of 'Records' set on electronic target systems that are know to have a tolerance band, particularly when that is relatively large given your group size (could have been 25% larger or smaller in the case of a 1" group).

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Well done foxing2night!

About the shot marker system. I walk past them almost every day I am at Bisley. I do wonder how well they will age. Anybody know how long they have been around?

Call me a luddite, but I'm not a huge fan of electronic stuff generally, not in vehicles, home or anything. Even if they are meant to be used outdoors, the weather in this country isn't good to technology. 

I suppose time will tell and the shotmarker system can be improved over time. 

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Couldn't agree more - the first car I got with electric windows I thought "When that fails the window will be stuck in the 'down' position and it'll be raining".  That's exactly what happened but who'd go back to wind-up windows?

We get some pretty horrendous weather at Diggle but our Shotmarkers have survived a whole day in the rain on many occasions.  Yes, we have taken simple measures to waterproof them but on the whole they are superb.

 

 

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Since the Shotmarker was introduced at Diggle it has halfed our time in the butt's. Its a fantastic system, and the way of waterproofing parts of the system is very simple yet  deadly in keeping everything dry. 

The people who came up with the idea and system deserve a pat on the back. A job well done. 

Nick 

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So, will it record a 223 hit?

Pete

 

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10 minutes ago, Re-Pete said:

So, will it record a 223 hit?

Pete

 

In my limited knowledge, it all depends on the speed of the bullet. I have seem .308 not register when shooting at 1000 yards.

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2 hours ago, Private Marker said:

@The Gun Pimp do they take the shot marker system down at Diggle? They don't at Bisley. Sometimes they can be left up for days. Can't be good for them. 

I would guess you are getting confused between different systems.

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1 hour ago, geek said:

In my limited knowledge, it all depends on the speed of the bullet. I have seem .308 not register when shooting at 1000 yards.

The bullet still needs to be supersonic AFAIK.

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17 minutes ago, John MH said:

I would guess you are getting confused between different systems.

I don't think so. The electronic targets and shot marker system fixed to the original standard targets are different systems. 

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3 hours ago, Private Marker said:

@The Gun Pimp do they take the shot marker system down at Diggle? They don't at Bisley. Sometimes they can be left up for days. Can't be good for them. 

Yeh we take 'em down after the shoot.  Takes about half an hour to strip and repackage the electronic bits and put the frames away.  We have two sets - one set for benchrest and one set for F Class.

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10 hours ago, Private Marker said:

I don't think so. The electronic targets and shot marker system fixed to the original standard targets are different systems. 

The 'caged' electronic systems in Butt 19 can be left out, I would suspect that the Shotmarkers are removed each day as the Sensor Hub has the be recharged and is very easy to remove (steal) as ate the Sensors.

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Regardless of the method used and its pros/cons etc. And back to original couple of post.

1” or 1 1/4” group at 600 yards is nothing to sneeze at, I’d be quite happy with either and to me it is getting to the limits of the ‘systems’ involved as in rifles, bullet etc. - taking out the nut behind the butt 😏

But here is a question to Al - and I’m not trying to spark a which is best ‘debate’ free for all - that’s been done to death. Al, you appear to have built a few 6.5’s, so what have you found to be the easiest to tune on the assumption that they all shoot as well/consistently once their load’s been tuned? Or put it another way - which 6.5 cartridge would you choose if spending your own money?

Cheers Terry

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