Do you trust your safety?

[1967spud]

As a full time keeper i carry a shotgun and rifle with for my job now and again . As a target shooter i use a rifle a lot. One thing in common with all my shooting disciplines is that i dont trust my safety or others around me purely on that little button on my gun that says "SAFE"

 

Im my eyes safe is no cartridges/rounds in my chamber unless I'm about to take a shot

 

If its shot gun shooting ill have the gun open unless im on a peg i.e. for driven then its gun pointing forward and in to the air. If im using an auto its much the same.

 

 

I know this is a highly emotive subject and we all have our own ways and thoughts on safety but these are mine and have worked for me in the last 40 years of my shooting life since a wee lad.

 

Discuss

[jay222]

Don't trust the safety catch but I will chamber a round and apply the safety when stalking before actually needing to take the shot as it is slower and far noisier to do it at the time and would cost a lot of spooked deer, I rely on good muzzle discipline to keep me and anyone or anything else safe

[Offroad Gary]

I trust a blaser, but dont have one at the moment. Also trusted my AI, again sold. Dont trust any of my current collection in a vehicle with one up the spout, which has cost me foxes. But they are always there another day. Stalk with one up on safety, never had a problem, always muzzle aware (even as i slipped into the swamp head first!)

[DaveT]

I use the safety but never rely on it.

 

True safety being muzzle awareness, whether or not you actually need a round chambered at that particular moment and keeping your finger off the trigger until needed...plus trying not to drop the gun!

[gbal]

Gentlemen,the issue is simply not should you trust a safety 100%.The answer to virtually ever safety improver is the same-none are 100% safe.

The key issue is that it is generally better to have the option of a safety and use it,than not to have the choice at all.(there are a few exceptions-as I said,BR where bolts will not be in the rifle until at the bench....etc)

Safeties are indeed quite to very reliable under normal conditions,and do not increase risk,even if faulty(?).I follows that it is better to have one.

That does NOT,repeat NOT,replace all the other safety practices.It is additional,and indeed likely to be a very effective addition.The primary safety issue is still to ensure that any discharge would not cause harm,or alarm.It is not knowable how often a deployed safety catch may have prevented an unsafe discharge,but it is very difficult to imagine any scenarios where the discharge would have been less likely had the safety not been on (I think we have to distinguish human stupidity-important though it may be,in causing accidents:I accept unreservedly that anyone who,on the false belief that the rifle/gun is totally safe because the safety is on,and therefore abandons all the other safety procedures/practices is likely to cause harm and alarm;it would be ,to me,be an exceptionally poor judgement to assume that such a person would be a model of safety if only the rifle did not have a safety catch.)

 

Safety catches reduce accidental discharges-which are more likely to be harmful in some situations than others.Descriptions of best practice are helpful,and might allow some minor variance-for example,having a detachable magazine option may allow the bolt to be in the rifle,on an empty chamber-and so on-useful detail for specific applications-but having a safety catch always reduces the risk of an accidental discharge,however slight that might be because of other safety precutions.

Another fine tune,is that when field shotgunning,the safety should not be undone until momentarily before shooting-and on well designed guns,it is right where it needs to be.Different design might compromise a little.And let's not get too much into rifle design differences-the essential point is that every rifle is potentially less safe without some safety device. Nor is there any 'cost' involved-no stag/bird is going to escape being shot because of the time taken to slip a safety,but another human might.

 

OK,if I've missed something,let's have it.(not,please,they get broken-that applies to anything)

Otherwise,any discussion is really about additional safety practices,and maybe special conditions,and all that is interesting too.

It occurs to me that comparisons with other non shooting scenarios are initially tempting,but are very leaky-it seems impossible to drive in traffic without trusting in your brakes (though catastrophic failure happens),and insuring my house against damage etc does not make me more careless about tossing lighted matches about in the kitchen,or invoking the gods to send a flood...to remove faulty thought...:-)

 

Safeties are worth having. Without prejudice. But it is interesting and useful probably to have some discussion of best practice,allowing that it may vary a little,by situation and equipment.

 

G

[jcampbellsmith]

I have a double barrelled hammer shotgun in the gun cupboard with no safety, however I note modern versions of this type of shotgun now sport a tang safety. I'm a bit puzzled by that one.

 

Regards

 

JCS

[Ronin]

I alway when stalking / foxing have a cartridge under the bolt.

 

I never rely on the safety.

 

Its a simple and quiet task to chamber a round and either stalk in or get set up ready for a shot, be that from a vehicle, ground hide high seat or firing point.

 

I use the same principle when target shooting

 

Round doesn't go into the chamber until I'm about to fire or at best a few moments before.

 

 

People who rely on safeties when stalking in woodland where branches can snick of the safety or crawling into a fp are asking for trouble.

 

 

Shotguns, its broken until its time to fire.

[gbal]

I alway when stalking / foxing have a cartridge under the bolt.

 

I never rely on the safety.

 

Its a simple and quiet task to chamber a round and either stalk in or get set up ready for a shot, be that from a vehicle, ground hide high seat or firing point.

 

I use the same principle when target shooting

 

Round doesn't go into the chamber until I'm about to fire or at best a few moments before.

 

 

People who rely on safeties when stalking in woodland where branches can snick of the safety or crawling into a fp are asking for trouble.

 

 

Shotguns, its broken until its time to fire.

 

Andy,I agree with almost all you say-all my shotguns place the safety on when broken (well,not tthe semi autos) and that is slid off by me just before the trigger is pulled.....i.e milliseconds before....I have no problems with clay competition guns under competition useage....given the range officer

Rifle shots similarly-whatever happens before-the last acton before pulling the trigger in the field is to slip the safety...I just wish they were tang safeties...

Target rifles may not have a safety...

 

But having a safety and using it just has to decrease the risk of an unwanted discharge,at almost no cost at all....having one on the rifle/gun and not using it properly suggests well....what would you call it ...at best ,experience,so far....so good, but that is on a slippery slope to 'I don't need it".......I mean,mostly one does not need insurance.....mostly,,til one does...

[1967spud]

i agree gbal its just personally i dont trust mine and prefer to be may be over cautious

[Ronin]

I hear what your saying gbal, but I've stalked for years using the cartridge under the bolt principle until i am about to fire or in a position where I need to chamber.

 

It works for me.

 

Im not saying my way is the only way as some perceived in another thread, I'm saying I do not trust safeties - not because they and mechanically faulty, but because of the myriad of other factors that can snick them off without the operator knowing.

[gbal]

I hear what your saying gbal, but I've stalked for years using the cartridge under the bolt principle until i am about to fire or in a position where I need to chamber.

 

It works for me.

 

Im not saying my way is the only way as some perceived in another thread, I'm saying I do not trust safeties - not because they and mechanically faulty, but because of the myriad of other factors that can snick them off without the operator knowing.

Fine ,Andy...it just takes a few posts to get the detail squared away-looks like we differ,if at all,in the last few seconds only,if that-once settled for the shot you chamber a cartridge by sliding the bolt,and I do the same,and release the safety,preferably.No issues about relying on anything-an empty chamber is probably the best safety state!

[jcampbellsmith]

I hear what your saying gbal, but I've stalked for years using the cartridge under the bolt principle ....

Andy. Bolt cocked or uncocked? Regards JCS

[triggersqueezer]

my first thought was yes but would i chamber a round point the rifle at my head and tap the trigger.would i heck so i guess the answer is nope.

[brown dog]

my first thought was yes but would i chamber a round point the rifle at my head and tap the trigger.would i heck so i guess the answer is nope.

 

Good test.

[Will0]

Good test.

"Your honour, I pointed the rifle at someone, and pulled the trigger... But the safety was on"

 

I quite like the post you put in another thread along those lines.

 

Personally I use the safety as a bolt lock, on an empty chamber. This way the bolt won't catch on something, open up, and let something get in the ejection port.

[247sniper]

In short, NO, the only safe firemarm is an empty one. Certain situations ill close the barrel with cartridges in likes of a hot spot area providing it is safe foot positions etc but break the barrels and unlaod if necessary when needed.

 

With a rifle, the only time I chamber a round is when I am about to shoot, if the shot doesnt happen for what ever reason then I alwas empy the chamber immediately.

 

Steve

[Ronin]

Andy. Bolt cocked or uncocked? Regards JCS

 

Bolt closed on empty chamber, cocked.

[baldie]

 

[dannywayoflife]

^^ where's the like button!? Lol

[Dalua]

I have a double barrelled hammer shotgun in the gun cupboard with no safety, however I note modern versions of this type of shotgun now sport a tang safety. I'm a bit puzzled by that one.

 

Regards

 

JCS

It's an interesting question. I have two faintly-connected suggestions:

1. Modern shooters haven't the knack of safe handling of hammer-guns, namely that the hammers themselves are the safety, kept at half-cock (if non-rebounding) or 'down' (if rebounding) until the gun is being raised to the shoulder, during which movement the thumb brings one or both (according to choice) to full-cock.

2. I believe that some modern hammer-guns are in fact self-cocking - in which case the provision of a (preferably automatic) safety seems entirely sensible. -

 

While one can appreciate the humour of Baldie's finger-safety pic, I hope that we all realise that in fact our safety is our brain - and that to rely on the efficacy of a safety-catch to ensure safety is in many ways just as rash, depending on circumstances, as not using a safety-catch as an adjunct to safe practice when appropriate.

 

I should also add that there is nothing intrinsically safe about a broken shotgun with cartridges in the chambers. Quite the opposite, in my opinion.

[bradders]

No round in the chamber.....it's a damn bloody good job those pesky self-loaders were banned!!!!!!!!!!!

 

God damned dangerous things.

The only way to be safe is to have a single shot rifle and two people to go out with it.

One to carry the gun and the other to carry the round of ammo

[gbal]

Mark,Yes indeed-to whatever you are saying or not!

The discussion-to this point-had mainly been about stalking rifles-so obviously excluded your babies- that's not to say some err... 'player' might not shoot at lesser deer with them....I have an Aug.

More seriously,relocating tongue somewhere,there is no fundamental problem having a manually operated military clone rifle with a clear chamber,and cycling the action when needed,is there? Reasonably comparable on safety grounds with the empty chamber bolt scenario?And you could put the safety on too.A cartridge in chamber is intrinsically less safe-for any rifle,under any/all circumstances.

Your single round is less of a problem for an accurate rifle,and preferable to a full auto,big mag ,no safety catch,finger resting on trigger jobbie-but thankfully this ain't going to happen with civilians.

 

Or have I misunderstood whatever you point was?

[mildot]

NOPE. Open bolt and only chamber when i have a target. No mistakes then.

[gunner]

No round in the chamber.....it's a damn bloody good job those pesky self-loaders were banned!!!!!!!!!!!

 

God damned dangerous things.

The only way to be safe is to have a single shot rifle and two people to go out with it.

One to carry the gun and the other to carry the round of ammo

Why not just use a muzzle loader i stopped taking a complete di#khead out pigeon decoying because he kept leaning hi OU against the netting loaded ! The Fu##ing blancmange ! But this was even after i said - if you come decoying with me and we shoot from my hyde , only one person shoots at one time , and you sit behind the shooter and your gun is unloaded and on the floor ! - iv heard recently hees been using an illegal bear trap in his garden to catch foxes for his friends lurchers to kill , but hees sometimes only found a leg . Plus neighbours cats , he stuck one with a garden fork because it was trying to scratch him / bite him etc . His wife caught him loading a cat into his pickup . So not sure if hees still doing this . I want to report him , iv had nothing to do with him now for about 3 years , and never intend to !

[triggersqueezer]

NOPE. Open bolt and only chamber when i have a target. No mistakes then.

if its mag fed but an open bolt would that be a dsc1 fail sure i read that is considered unsafe in case it accidently chambers if bolt catches on something ??? could be wrong