Ronin Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 The WMS facility is based in Powys, mid Wales. The facility is set in open hill / mountainous country on a 5000 acre site with excellent access roads to the numerous firing points, which are either raised beds of local stone or natural grass banking. The site complex is a ten minute drive from habitation and for the person who likes a challenge, it is manna from heavan. I heard about the place a couple of years ago from friends who had visited the site and was invited down last year, unfortunately I was unable to attend, but, a similar opportunity arose a few weeks ago, so 7 of us made the journey from the four corners of the UK to spend an overnight stop in a nearby pub and then spend the day shooting in a "fun comp" designed to be technically challenging, fun and instructional at the same time. The owner, Andrew greeted us at the local and over a few soft drinks, our band of merry travellers were shown a list for the prospective course of fire. Distances were unknown, targets were steel plates or clay pigeon. The plates were a mixture of rabbit, turkey, seated fox, standing fox, roe buck with K zone, 1/2 fig 11, hostage, and a variety of reactive discs ranging from about 10 to 20 inches in diameter. The following morning, feeling refreshed we drove to the site. The facility is what I would decribe as a "shooters paradise", countless firing points, hundreds of targets set out on the entire landscape. There is I understand 25 miles of access road within the site that allows relatively easy 4 wheel driving to firing points where one can shoot at reactives from a couple of hundred out to 2000 mtrs. Yep - 2000 Andrew had set out the targetry the day before and we started out with relatively easy rabbits at 300 mtrs - in a 25mph crosswind. We then moved on to a Turkey ringer at 350 from the same FP and then more rabbits at 450 in the same weather conditions, the difficulty obviously increased with the distances as did the challenge. After a quick brew, we moved to a hill top overlooking a small water flash, this time we shot unsupported seated at a 20" gong (which I made a mess of) Then prone at 10" discs and clays set out at around 550mtrs the incline agle was 19 degrees - pretty steep again in a similar wind, but this time from completely different direction Next, same firing point, but more of a challenge - hostage target - you may have seen these, the hostage has a "bad guy" hiding behind it to one side - you have a slightly obscured 10 inch disc to hit, hit the hostage - 0 points you get the idea.. The detail allowed for one shot on the hostage and one on a "precision" plate - similar to the hostage but with smaller k zone - loved that one Distance was about 580 mtrs. After another short break we moved back to another range and set up prone at 800 and did a variety of seated fox, rabbit and small squares in various drills. Then we moved to the top of a big hill which overlooks the main site area and shot the same discs (water) from further and at a steeper angle, moving on to another 1/2 fig 11 and finally a 10 inch gong across the valley - this time we had to figure out the compensation for a 37mph crosswind........... I forgot to take pics of each detail, apologies, these are a few of the last firing point. General view at last FP, Blue area has 10" reactive plates - 570mtrs Yellow - 1/2 fig 11 plate - 750 mtrs Red - 20" gong - 970 mtrs Some of the kit Several AW's with gucci glass and versacce' cammo Stock TRG 22 Custom 22BR Shot of the day has to have been made with this gun - hit the 20inch gong at 900+mtrs in a 37mph coss wind.. Thanks to the guys who went and made it a very enjoyable day including off the site - Brown Dog and Trigger 2. Looking forwards to the next visit - Andrew is a great host. This venue would make a wonderful venue for competitions............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxing2night Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Weldone Ronnin, Good write up my mate and some good pic,s,,,, I thought that 22br looked familliar ,,, Weldone Trigger Looks like ya all had one hell of a day???? Darrel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwood Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Sounds like a whole lotta fun. I remember Andrew from way back when he worked at the Royal Berkshire, a super nice guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Previously when WMS training was brought up there was a bit of a hoo haa over the licincing conditions needed to shoot there, a few members got a bit peeved, the thread was closed without being resolved, so what are the licence conditions needed to shoot there Andy? Thanks. Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Ian, Clearly, it is not my place to speak for Andrew. Only he can speak authoritatively on the matter and if you wish to shoot there you will have to get this 'from the horse's mouth' as it were. Nevertheless, for outline guidance without predjudice or authority, this is the situation: You will have to have your own 3rd party insurance, and your FAC will have to include a condition to the effect that: The rifle and ammunition may be used for target shooting on ranges suitable for the safe use of that class of firearm and with adequate financial arrangements in place to meet any injury or damage claim. Many people, including some FEOs are confused by the mythical notion of 'approved range status'. There is no longer any such thing. The range must be suitable for the weapon and have adequate insurance in place. To put that in a little perspective; at 5000 acres WMS is 3 times the size of New Radnor Ranges with similar topography and nearly double the size of the entire Bisley facility and all its danger areas (at 3,200 acres). It has another uninhabited 25,000 acres on 3 sides. [i've called in close air support on smaller training areas ] Andrew has things squared with his local constabulary. Thus the onus lies with the shooter to ensure that they too are 'legal'...and whether your particular licensing authority will accept the facts (or make up their own) is down to the same postcode lottery that affects many of the seemingly random firearms conditioning decisions with which we are all familiar. Thus, the bottom line is; if a shooter doesn't have the appropriate condition and/or their particular licensing authority doesn't accept that it is a range suitable for the shooter's weapon type, then the shooter can't shoot there legally. -and if you live somewhere that still believes in 'approved range status' you'll be fresh out of luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Ronin, That first picture. The shooter wearing a black hat on the left next to a bush. It's hard to tell, but I think that might not be a bush. Is that multicoatman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oly Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Sounds amazing, all I can say is...you lucky buggers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted November 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 BD thanks for the reply, they are the facts as I would interpret them regarding the legalities. As you point out, Andrew would be the person to speak to regarding any questions - the place is as safe as anywhere I have ever shot and its vast. I understand that there was a recent write up about the WMS facility in Sporting Rifle? magazine although I havent seen it. Multicam man - could be, I am not sure, the concealment is too good for my eyes Oly - the WMS facility is open to anyone, you pay your fee and of you go. The group of us who went have shot a little together before in comps abroad this venue is an ideal meeting point for us as we all travelled about the same distance. The fee is very reasonable considering whats available. Here's a link to Andrews site for more info, as I put in my first post, its an ideal location for practical / tactical competition or for a bunch of mates to meet up and shoot different targets. http://www.wms-firearmstraining.org/index.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ds1 Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Ronin and BD, That looks excellent. David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 "The following morning, feeling refreshed we drove to the site." Clearly the sort of refreshed that required 6 cups of coffee and a large dose of paracetomol Great day out, plenty to learn and a good bunch of blokes. Thanks to Andrew for arranging the special order 35mph hailstorm too Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oly Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Ronin, thanks for the info, thats good to know. Once I get a couple more jobs done on the rifle & I've settled it back down with some good loads I think it might be worth organising a trip!! Cheers, Oly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir-slots-alot Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Great write up Ronin Would like to come along if an other session is arranged , as I am sure a few others would. would be nice to put faces to names. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted November 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Well, I for one would love to re-visit sooner rather than later - I cant see going before early next year though. I think we all had a great time, Tony, didn't realise you were a member of the site - sorry. We could arrange something if members commit to attending.... I can think of about 10 people offhand (here and others) who would go, but once you have paid for the B&B, food and the use of the area youre looking at about £150 per head before ammo. This is reasonable and good value for what you get, BUT its a bit of a commitment if you have to take a midday off work with overnight and factor in travel costs too. If anyone wants to go along, perhaps we should make a list of possible attendee's and work from there? Or just leave it to personal booking with mates - open to idea's. Reason I say this is that some may not be interested in what others like...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Clearly the sort of refreshed that required 6 cups of coffee and a large dose of paracetomol The sort of refreshed that I'm still feeling over 48hrs later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 "I think we all had a great time, Tony, didn't realise you were a member of the site - sorry." No problem - I'm just the quiet and unassuming sort TC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballistic Hamster Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Well l dont DRINK !! I Just eat The Pies. ! Great day with the Rain and Wind And of course Good Company Very enjoyable. Thanks all TBC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Well l dont DRINK !!I Just eat The Pies. ! Great day with the Rain and Wind And of course Good Company Very enjoyable. Thanks all TBC And you bring enough pies for the rest of us - bloody good they were too! A real pleasure to meet you Glen. cheers Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ds1 Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Ronin, BD, Any thoughts on doing a quad and shoot type course / comp. The area looks ideal for quads if allowed. David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Thanks for clearing that up BD, Ronin. I have the very condition and so do all of my shooting buddies, i think a visit is in order. I have a few questions that no doubt Mr Venebles can answer in more depth but just to give me some idea, for a disabled guy with walking difficulties whats the access to the shooting points like. Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted November 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Ian I have only visited a few points - 7 or so of those three were very accessible you can drive to the side of the FP and its a few steps to the top of a shale raised bank point. Other FP's would need a short walk over heathland from a 4wd track again about 50 yards max of the ones I visisted. BD has been there more often and can maybe expand on areas he has shot from. From the main area where there is a shelter and brew cabin you can shoot out to 800 if not farther very easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldie Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Thanks for clearing up the conditions question BD. Like Ian, i have that wording on mine, so the .338 is a goer. I,m up for a jaunt Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Ronin and BD, That looks excellent. David. Yes, but it doesn't match CZ on beer prices! You must put the place on your 'one of these days' list when you're next UK bound; we will sort you out for kit. Ian, Access - Once you've cracked the first abseil, it's just as ronin described In seriousness: Despite the terrain, it's not a hillwalking day out; it's a shooting day out. A really great, varied and full day could be definitely be run within arms reach of a 4wd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted November 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Thanks for clearing up the conditions question BD. Like Ian, i have that wording on mine, so the .338 is a goer. I,m up for a jaunt Andy. Seriously, you would LOVE it there, the ability to get out to as far as you want and see the target react...fantastic. Found the hostage targets most challenging for obvious reasons, but fun factor were the steel bunnies and other small steels at silly distances. Heres another one - lifesize turkey head at 450 in a 25mph cross wind - think its impossible - nope Its a great place for wind reading as it comes from just about everywhere. Oh I forgot to say that I used Knights Bulletflight when using the 6.5x47 and Matts cards when using the 338. Using Matts cards, I had no and I mean no issues with drop (bullet placement) except when I judged the wind speed wrongly on the seated targets. Now I need a set of cards for every other damn calibre I shoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeza Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Ronin, That first picture. The shooter wearing a black hat on the left next to a bush. It's hard to tell, but I think that might not be a bush. Is that multicoatman? Dam and blast my pockets fluttering in the breeze must have given me away!! I must mention the pies too, the best I have ever tasted and in my refreshed state probably saved my life! Thanks Glen. Gerald Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldie Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Do folk use a rangefinder then Andy, or is it done by milling etc ? Whats all this about pies ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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