Running out of elevation ... advice please.

[Trigger73]

I'm not long got back from a session at the range and after finally getting my stock back from being reworked I put the package back together to shoot at the 100yds at the local club.

Package is Anschutz 1813 Supermatch, Tier One rings and a Sightron S3 45x45 ED.  When zeroing, the elevation was at maximum which left me 3" short of where I needed to be.

As the Anschutz has a dovetail fitting, I don't want to use a Picatinny to dovetail adapter nor do I want to shim the back ring to try to get some extra elevation as that has always bothered me.

Burris XTR signature rings came to mind but I think that they're a picatinny/weaver fitting?

Any help would be appreciated. 

[terryh]

T73

personally I’d not want to shim rings, feels like you are trying to bend the scope while doing this?
Can I ask why you are against adding an adapter rail to the rifle, seems to me a 20 moa rail ( or more) would solve all your problems?! 

Terry 

[Trigger73]

57 minutes ago, terryh said:

T73

personally I’d not want to shim rings, feels like you are trying to bend the scope while doing this?
Can I ask why you are against adding an adapter rail to the rifle, seems to me a 20 moa rail ( or more) would solve all your problems?! 

Terry 

Hi Terry thanks for the reply, good point, I guess I could opt for a rail but that would mean more expense and in all honesty if I can, I'd prefer to try to keep the rifle as close to original as possible?  It's a 22LR and 100yards is the distance that this rifle is going to be shot at so a 20moa rail would give me more than I need so thinking out loud (whilst typing) I'd be somewhere in the middle ground and have more than I'd need but then again I guess its better to have more than not enough, but that'll mean the dreaded picatinny/weaver rail plus ring combo = more money.  The other thing is that my variable S3s have no problem with elevation at 100yds yet this bloody fixed mag has less, that's the pain in the ass right there.

[Re-Pete]

I have a CG-RPA 2000 which has an 11mm dovetail machined into the reciever. I use Optilock bases and rings which have a nylon insert.

I needed  a bit more elevation to get this up to 1000yds.

https://www.sportsmanguncentre.co.uk/optilock-plastic-ring-inserts-30mm   

Placing a shim between the rear base and ring doesn't stress the scope body at all, as the nylon inserts move in the rings like a ball and socket.

I made one up from a bit of 0.75mm brass sheet.

Pete

[Shuggy]

If you want affordable, then there are these:

https://uk.hawkeoptics.com/match-mount-30mm-2-piece-9-11mm-high.html

…which you can fit with these:

https://uk.hawkeoptics.com/mount-inserts-30mm.html

[Trigger73]

7 hours ago, Shuggy said:

If you want affordable, then there are these:

https://uk.hawkeoptics.com/match-mount-30mm-2-piece-9-11mm-high.html

…which you can fit with these:

https://uk.hawkeoptics.com/mount-inserts-30mm.html

Cheers Shuggy, I was looking at the Sportsmatch adjustable elevation Atp61 mounts which seem to get good reviews, the Hawke stuff I've used in the past on sub 12 stuff and it's not been brilliant. 

[1066]

I would think the question is - why are you running out of elevation at 100yds? Your scope has about 40moa of adjustment and you are still 3moa short. 

I really don't think you would have a problem with the Tier One mounts and the Sightron scope should be trouble free which doesn't leave much.

Have you shot the rifle with it's aperture sights at 100 yards? - if you have enough elevation there it rules out a droopy barrel .

That really only leaves how the rings are mounted to the receiver. Although the Annie has an 11mm dovetail, does it have a rounded top? If so, is the top of the rail touching the base of the ring preventing it from fully engaging in the dovetail slots? Does the base of the ring have some sort of locating stud protruding?

 

[Trigger73]

49 minutes ago, 1066 said:

I would think the question is - why are you running out of elevation at 100yds? Your scope has about 40moa of adjustment and you are still 3moa short. 

I really don't think you would have a problem with the Tier One mounts and the Sightron scope should be trouble free which doesn't leave much.

Have you shot the rifle with it's aperture sights at 100 yards? - if you have enough elevation there it rules out a droopy barrel .

That really only leaves how the rings are mounted to the receiver. Although the Annie has an 11mm dovetail, does it have a rounded top? If so, is the top of the rail touching the base of the ring preventing it from fully engaging in the dovetail slots? Does the base of the ring have some sort of locating stud protruding?

 

I'll have another look but when I had a Falcon X50 on there it was fine at a 100 and I'm sure it had the same amount of elevation as the S3 which at the time was in BKL mounts. 

I'll have another look at it tonight, regarding the shape of the dovetail on the receiver, I'm sure it's flat. 

[No i deer]

As 1066 said something isn't quite right 🤔

[miki]

Subsonic (around 1200fps) is about -6" to 100M right ?

That shouldn't be a problem ..... tis only 6 MOA (just short of 2MiL) - deffo something amiss

 

[Trigger73]

I've had another look and yes the top of the Anschutz receiver is curved but the ring is not fouling it, the gap between scope and barrel seems fine, I have however set the scope to mechanical centre, I'm running out of ideas other than trying a different set of rings? 

 

[1066]

Hmm... I would remove the scope and try the mounts butted up together on the same bit of rail, just to reassure yourself they are a matched pair. Any discrepancy, the higher one need to go at the rear.

[Trigger73]

23 minutes ago, 1066 said:

Hmm... I would remove the scope and try the mounts butted up together on the same bit of rail, just to reassure yourself they are a matched pair. Any discrepancy, the higher one need to go at the rear.

Much appreciated, I've took the scope back to mechanical centre so next time I can get out is the weekend to try again.. 

 

[No i deer]

If you look through the scope and turn the dials you should see the reticle move. If you looked through the scope and someone else turns the dial you'd be able to watch it better if it's a dot 👍

[Trigger73]

34 minutes ago, No i deer said:

If you look through the scope and turn the dials you should see the reticle move. If you looked through the scope and someone else turns the dial you'd be able to watch it better if it's a dot 👍

Cheers - I usually put a mirror against the objective lens and have the mag set low that way you can see the reticle and centre it, I've tried that this evening but couldn't get it to work as I'm guessing it maybe that it's fixed at 45 mag, so I used the clicks on the turrets instead to get it centred 

[1066]

The graduations on this scope are a rather unusual 1/10th moa - Wind it right down and come up about 20moa, should get you near enough optically centred - then you would need around another 6-7moa to get you to 100yds. If way different from that you have a problem somewhere else.

[Trigger73]

31 minutes ago, 1066 said:

The graduations on this scope are a rather unusual 1/10th moa - Wind it right down and come up about 20moa, should get you near enough optically centred - then you would need around another 6-7moa to get you to 100yds. If way different from that you have a problem somewhere else.

Again, many thanks, its going to be a long week that's for sure! 

[Catch-22]

Is the rail on top of the receiver part of the receiver (all one machined part) or is it a screwed/pinned rail? If the latter, try removing, checking there’s nothing between rail & receiver.

Also, If the rail is a removable type, check if it has an incline. If it does, check the rail is installed the correct way around, otherwise it’ll be angling upwards thus loosing you elevation.

Same for the rings, are they incline rings? If so, ensure they’re installed the correct way around.

[Trigger73]

OK, so... I took the scope off and put the rings against one another and hello.... 

 

 

[One on top of two]

And there’s your problem 👍

[Trigger73]

1 minute ago, One on top of two said:

And there’s your problem 👍

Yup, I think that's the cookie 👍

Now I need a set of rings...any thoughts folks... Kelbly? 

[1066]

I can't quite see from the photo but is one higher than the other? If so - not a bad thing, just use the taller one at the back - this will give you some extra elevation for free - just like having a 20moa rail fitted.

[Trigger73]

3 minutes ago, 1066 said:

I can't quite see from the photo but is one higher than the other? If so - not a bad thing, just use the taller one at the back - this will give you some extra elevation for free - just like having a 20moa rail fitted.

The front ring runs out of being parallel with the rear from right to left so sticks out into the centre which will lift and cant the scope. 

[No i deer]

Get some new rings..

If there not parallel that's not good anyway.

[Shuggy]

Tier One should stand behind their product and send you a new set. Worth a try at least? What you have there is somewhere beyond tolerance stacking.