22lr at Distance

[OSOK]

Does anyone know about any competitions or just get togethers ( under normal circumstances ) where its just 22lr with Subs at distance  ?  If so what distances are they being shot at and is it based upon score or group size ........ If it's group then what are people achieving and at what distance ?

OSOK

[martin_b]

Marginally off topic maybe but have you seen this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcnunlqzjE8

a 22LR @1000m !

[terryh]

OSOK,

We run a 22rf LR comp, 50 standing, 100 sitting 200 prone and also a 100 yard 20 shots for score comp. do not think anyone uses subs as they are not the most of accurate choice in a 22rf.

The recent 20 round 100 yard for score comp group was about 20mm outside dim.

Any reason why subs, for expansion? Target rounds as ‘sub’.

Terry

[Deserttech Europe]

Hi greg,

 

we take it out to 300 and 400 at Bisley pretty regularly.  Their is a "Long Range Rimfire Comp" held there regularly as well.

 

Great fun

[One on top of two]

All the long range rimfire stuff I do is ALL using  Quality standard velocity Ammo along with everyone else I shoot with , as terry rightly says subs are no good . 
standard velocity is very much the norm for these kind of comps . 👍

[1066]

1 hour ago, One on top of two said:

All the long range rimfire stuff I do is ALL using  Quality standard velocity Ammo along with everyone else I shoot with , as terry rightly says subs are no good . 
standard velocity is very much the norm for these kind of comps . 👍

Virtually all top quality .22lr target ammunition is subsonic, Eley Tenex, Match, Lapua Midas+, Centre x, x-Exact etc. The only supersonic match quality I recall is RWS 100 at around 1,130fps.

[One on top of two]

2 hours ago, 1066 said:

Virtually all top quality .22lr target ammunition is subsonic, Eley Tenex, Match, Lapua Midas+, Centre x, x-Exact etc. The only supersonic match quality I recall is RWS 100 at around 1,130fps.

Sorry I’m talking out my gin fuelled ass haha I’ve got subs as in hollow point subs in my mind , totally misread the OP post . It’s been a really long day . 
 

for what it’s worth I use Eley match in my Anschütz silhouette rifle 👍 

[OSOK]

Yes my understanding is that the subs are the most accurate in 22lr and not the high velocity . I was going subs for that reason and in being more of a challenge .....

Ewen , Are you shooting subs at Bisley and what are you achieving at 400 yards ?  My recent one off findings with Eley Edge doing approx 1,070 ft/sec at 442 yards was giving me a vertical dispersion of 17.5 Inches which seemed awful until you looked at their velocities .... 1,079 the fastest and 1,048 the slowest so assuming that the two offending shots were these velocities the 31 ft/sec equals 16 Inches at that range ....406 Inches compared to 390 Inches .......

Not sure what results people are getting

OSOK

[Popsbengo]

"RWS Rifle Match" (my favourite in CZ455) is subsonic (just) but there's a new addition "Rifle Match S" which is just over, going sub after <50m.  Seems counter intuitive to do that

[terryh]

Greg 

As much a I hate to quote US sights, if you want to see what some folks are achieving out to 200 yards have a look here and what rifles used:  https://forum.snipershide.com/threads/6x5-thread-v4-0-new-1-1-20.6253073/

High end ammo I've found to be the most consistent (now there's a surprise 😉) but not good enough in some cases e.g. Centre-X vs Midas plus, to warrant the cost difference. All about finding what your rifle likes best.

There is discussion about twist rates and barrel lengths related to long distance performance in 22rf's, fast twists (1:9 as opposed to the standard 1:16+/-) and the need for longer barrels  (22" ish, all against the anecdotal 'no need for more than 16" etc.). with the growing interest in high quality  22rf's in the US (Voodoo, Ultimatum etc.) there is a lot of work and experimenting going on to get the best out of the 22rf's BC (all to do with rotational speed). Be worth keeping an eye on?

Brgds Terry

ps sorry for using OSOK in original reply - thought we were all sticking to the silly internet anonymity/tinfoil hat guff 😁

[OSOK]

Hi Terry , Mine is a 455 but with a match trigger and Lilja barrel which shoots very well with Eley Edge & Midas however i cant find any make that gives great spreads ....... on the very rare occasion i may get ES's of slightly under 20 ft/sec over ten shots but mostly its around the 30 ft/sec .

Regards

Greg

[terryh]

Greg,

Is that a pre-fit Lilja? Their chamber designes as supposed to be one of the better designs - the 52D being the best (allegedly! ).

Perhaps a tuner to ring the best out of your chosen ammo i.e. reduce the effect of velocity variations?

I'm using an MPR but mounted using a barrel block into a CF stock. Watching the US re. barrel twists with the possibility of swapping the barrel at a later date, only issue is no one seems to work on 22rf's in the UK or the one person I did find was a bit 'stick in the mud' i.e. I asked about a cone face and he went blank (no pun!)

Good luck with your quest.

Brgds Terry

[OSOK]

Yes mine is a pre-fit for the 455's ....... I have thought about a tuner but Im not convinced it would have any effect on the 30 ft/sec spread variations at 400 plus yards  ?

Greg

[OSOK]

Another problem in shooting the 22's at these ranges is target board widths as a 30 inch wide target giving + or - 15 inches at 442 yards is a very small window ..... something like a 1.5 mph switch and your off the board. I've tried shooting in a full value 10mph and it's so hard , I think i worked it out that it's the same as shooting a 180g Berger hybrid at 3100 ft/sec at a target 2,860 yards away..... give or take conditions etc......  15 moa ish

Greg

[1066]

22 minutes ago, terryh said:

 

Perhaps a tuner to ring the best out of your chosen ammo i.e. reduce the effect of velocity variations?

 

I think you're right Terry, we seem very slow on the up-take of tuners for rimfire, we seem to be stuck in some sort of 1950's time warp where a BSA Martini International with a heavy thick rigid barrel was the bench mark for .22lr accuracy and nothing much has changed since then. Although it seems every few months a "new" product has been added to the Eley line, Team, Action, Edge, Sport, Force etc, etc nothing has really changed as far as accuracy is concerned - Life was so much easier when you only had the choice of Tenex, Match or Club in a cardboard box. 🙂

I can't honestly say I've noticed any real improvement in the flat nosed Tenex/Match bullets over the older conventional ones and there still seems massive variations in different lot numbers of the same brand/type of ammunition.

Here's a couple of experimental tuners I've made, one fitted to a Lilja prefit match barrel and the other on a standard factory barrel on my Sako P94S Finnfire.

[terryh]

Greg,

Concur it will not help the 30fps variance but it should help round off a group shot with 30fps variance ammo ?

1066, here's my Harrell tuner, you can add weights to the front:

not sure how you went about initial setup? I tried the 'Purdy prescription' which seemed to get me into the ball park: https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=544427

You can also use O rings along the barrel as harmonic dampeners, perhaps position by talcum and hammer method?

1066, see you are doing the postal BR comp? bit off OP but how are you sorting the new(ish) rules on front rests? I've come up with this contraction using a laboratory lift:

Brgds Terry

 

[1066]

12 minutes ago, terryh said:

 

1066, see you are doing the postal BR comp? bit off OP but how are you sorting the new(ish) rules on front rests? I've come up with this contraction using a laboratory lift:

 

 

 

I've made up three for my club using the Caldwell Jnr rest and replacing the sandbag with a 19mm ply flat plate and covering it with carpet tile (heat them up with a heat gun and they form over the sides quite well) then added some 6mm aluminium "wings" to stop the rifle slipping off the ends. I also shoot NSRA benchrest which has different rules (No rear bag etc.)

This ones made from laminated cork with a bit of carpet inset in the top - 4" gap.

Also made up fore-end plates and scope mounts for the Internationals.

 

[terryh]

1066 - it is the NSRA comp I'm looking at doing, bit more of a challenge 😎

[Deserttech Europe]

5 hours ago, OSOK said:

Yes my understanding is that the subs are the most accurate in 22lr and not the high velocity . I was going subs for that reason and in being more of a challenge .....

Ewen , Are you shooting subs at Bisley and what are you achieving at 400 yards ?  My recent one off findings with Eley Edge doing approx 1,070 ft/sec at 442 yards was giving me a vertical dispersion of 17.5 Inches which seemed awful until you looked at their velocities .... 1,079 the fastest and 1,048 the slowest so assuming that the two offending shots were these velocities the 31 ft/sec equals 16 Inches at that range ....406 Inches compared to 390 Inches .......

Not sure what results people are getting

OSOK

Definitely using subs, there is no way we will keep up above transonic so start below it and keep it in as much smooth air as possible.

 

Ewen

[1066]

9 minutes ago, terryh said:

1066 - it is the NSRA comp I'm looking at doing, bit more of a challenge 😎

Yes, not easy - The sad truth is that I don't score much better now, using a rest and scope, than I did when I was shooting prone competitions with just a sling and aperture sights around 50 years ago.

[ColinBR]

3 hours ago, terryh said:

Greg,

Is that a pre-fit Lilja? Their chamber designes as supposed to be one of the better designs - the 52D being the best (allegedly! ).

Perhaps a tuner to ring the best out of your chosen ammo i.e. reduce the effect of velocity variations?

I'm using an MPR but mounted using a barrel block into a CF stock. Watching the US re. barrel twists with the possibility of swapping the barrel at a later date, only issue is no one seems to work on 22rf's in the UK or the one person I did find was a bit 'stick in the mud' i.e. I asked about a cone face and he went blank (no pun!)

Good luck with your quest.

Brgds Terry

Steve Kershaw is your man for 22rf in the UK

[OSOK]

What sort of groups are you getting Ewen ?

Greg

[brown dog]

And what rifle? Still got that .22 AI?

[terryh]

ColinBR

Actually thinking about what I’d need doing any reasonable Smith as I’d sort the reamer.

What I’d like to do is move the firing pin to 6 o’clock from the standard 12!

Terry

[Deserttech Europe]

Still have the .22 “AI barreled action “(Hall Action Krieger Barrel)

but it is now in an F Class barrel clamp chassis.