Popsbengo

7 minutes ago, One on top of two said:

Truth will Out . 

yes, I agree.  Let's hope we recognise it amongst the noise

9 minutes ago, Re-Pete said:

I think they're using the well-publicised CC issue, (which the NRA is addressing.....), to try and give a whiff of authenticity to the rest of the dross................

Pete

Dross indeed.  I'm sure the NRA has problems just like any large association, to impute corrupt practice is so easy from behind a veil of anonymity 

there are haters everywhere,  unfortunately the web is full of it.

30 minutes ago, John MH said:

The Charity Commission intervention is not fake news.

The Savebisley and Bisleyshooting content is to be taken in with the knowledge that both sites operators appear to have an axe to grind. 

Gee, you think so?  Thanks for pointing that out. 😉

I know the CC's intervention is not fake news - that website is full of it though.

10 hours ago, ezmobile said:

Very interesting indeed!

What a load of poisonous gonads,  fake news?

12 minutes ago, Gluv said:

Concussions all round , it's not the fumes

You're probably right,  +400  .338's being loosed through muzzle brakes to the left, right and straight ahead does feel is a bit rough on the noggin even with double ear protection.

2 hours ago, gruntus said:

At least it will provide more ventilation, 🙂a number of people have felt ill (myself included) with the amount of fumes blown back into the area from the muzzle brakes of the larger calibres.

Its sometimes like a scene from Apocalypse Now! 😁

A thumping headache and feeling ill as I travel home tells me I've had a 'blast'  😁

1 hour ago, Roy W said:

There are certain factions of the so called 'shooting media' , or shall we shall social media/self important/self promoting individuals who seek to undermine the NRA because of A, it's not their bag, B, they have personal axes to grind and C, there is no doubt some jealousy going on.

The Bisley shooting ground is a civil dispute over tenancy where the Landlord has given notice that the lease won't be renewed and the tenant claims that there was a nod and a wink agreement in the past which should be legally binding.

Likewise the previous 'Artist Club' dispute was a privately owned club/business paying a peppercorn rent of circa £9k per annum in leafy Surrey for the clubhouse and didn't feel they should have to pay any more. The tenuous past links to the SAS (now it is privately owned/run and nothing to do with the Artists Rifles) were milked to court support and favour.

Personally I don't think you'd be able to rent a single desk office in Surrey for £9k, so the NRA appeared to be within their rights to seek market value IMHO and the same applies to the clay grounds.

It's just that some people seem to think it is good ammo for their own agenda to undermine the NRA. 

The shooting community are their own worst enemies at times.

 

 

well said Roy 👍

2 hours ago, Christian.. said:

From what I can ascertain it depends on the club rules. From reading on the internet and other shooters experiences. It's established its possible to shoot on a range as a guest and not  be a member. This is fact even when your FAC is for shooting over land/Vermin.You can not do this the other way round though. This would make sense as I'm not a club member but my FAC is open so I can travel anywhere. It also states I can shoot on a range for zeroing and practice. I'd like to think the legislation on the FAC has been thought out and wouldn't have been put on there if it wasn't possible. The practice part to me would probably cover testing self reloads and seeing how they work out for accuracy at different distances. The "practice" part before the "zeroing" wold also indicate that's it's not restricted to zeroing alone.  

If you click the link below you will see this range will allow you to do exactly that but limits visits to three times a year, others don't have a limit https://www.barryshootingcentre.co.uk/membership-faqs/

What you are suggesting is a 'legal work around' used by shooting over land FAC holders. It's done for sure and seems to be accepted by FEOs.  Possibly we were at cross purposes here.  Target shooting is a 'good reason' condition but requires membership of a target shooting club (not necessarily HO approved but most are).  I understood (in earlier posts) that was what you were trying to achieve.  Possibly misunderstood you.

I know there are ranges that are set up to allow 'zeroing' that practically allow 'practice'.  Barry seems to be a commercial range that does a bit of both (we have a tunnel range locally that's similar).  If you are looking to do only an occasional 'practice' then Barry would be an answer it seems.  If you were looking to attend target shooting range days with a HO approved club I would be surprised if they would allow you with your current FAC conditions even as a guest.

There's no legal bar on any land owner setting up a "range" as long as it's fit for purpose and insured adequately.  How you then convince your local FEO to permit its use and endorse your FAC accordingly is unclear to me - it doesn't seem to be standardised across the forces.   As I mentioned in earlier posts, Garlands and Catton Park have some sort of arrangement that permits 'shooting over land' and 'target shooters' conditions to turn up and pay to shoot on the day.

I think we can all agree UK firearms law is complex, mysterious and inconsistently applied 😉

14 minutes ago, Christian.. said:

Also from a bit of research it seems you can add target shooting to a fac without being in a club. I could be wrong but it would be nice to know. 

I've never heard of that being done - that doesn't mean it can't be.  Home Office rules are pretty clear and unambiguous about clubs and members. If you can get your FEO to agree to put a target shooting condition without you being a member of a named club, good luck to you.  Out of interest, what county are you in?

26 minutes ago, Christian.. said:

   43 minutes ago,  Popsbengo said: 

The relevance was the part where you said this bit:

By the way, you won't get near a MoD range without being a probationer under supervision or holding a SCC (NRA safe shooters card)

OK, I give in.  The conversation was about civvi target shooting so the context was that.  You asked for some info, you don't like the advice, that's cool, your entitled to do what you want of course.  Best wishes you're even more argumentative than me 😂

1 minute ago, Christian.. said:

Thanks, 

I've shot on most of the the MOD rages in the country, during the day and night time just not a a civvi. It's the non MOD ranges I'd use to zero as they are closer and therefore more convent. Seems as though you have an issue with guys who are not members of a shooting club using a range. 

Not sure the relevance of non-civvi shooting but never mind.  Just trying to offer some guidance as I'm reasonably well informed as Secretary of a target shooting club.  If you can get to do what you want then best of luck to you and any club that lets you shoot as a guest.

12 minutes ago, Christian.. said:

Yes I can see what your saying,

What I'm saying is its obviously a grey area. I beg to differ with respect to 5 rounds. What if someone wants to check zero different bullets at different zero distances. And just generally see how different loads affect zeroing. Or as you stated are having some technical issues with the rifle. It would not be easy to define. Shooting at a target is shooting at a target. And who would be counting. 

As a side note looking around the internet guys have been advised by FAO's to just not enter competitions if using a range. I'd like to see an example of someone being prosecuted.

It also appears that you can have Target shooting on a FAC without being a member of a shooting club. I'd be interested if any one can conform this. People seem to have done it without paying for a variation. 

Guys that soot over land also have FMJ on their tickets for targets too. Seems allot of grey area in this.

Let's not forget that you initially told me you can't shoot on a range without being a member of a club full stop. 

And for the record before I visit a range with my own rifles to zero i'll defiantly try to obtain target shooting to be safe what's to lose by doing this.

You do what you think is right.  Best of British

4 minutes ago, Christian.. said:

Thanks guys,

This is all great stuff and I'm learning allot. It seems that as I already have a FAC with "zeroing on ranges" I can turn up to a range as a guest pay the man and use my rifles to shoot at targets to check zero. Where this is different form just shooting at a targets I'm not sure. It would be difficult to define it from the observer point. 

It also looks like I can ask to have" target shooting" applied to my FAC just to be safe for free without actually joining a gun club too. This would be the best way. Theoretically you could enter competitions like this too. 

I suppose the catch is that if you wanted a rifle specifically for shooting at targets that you would then have to join a club to justify good reason for that rifle. 

you can't have target shooting unless you are a member of a target club.  You would have to do probation, a minimum of three months and sufficient shoots to be considered.

By the way, you won't get near a MoD range without being a probationer under supervision or holding a SCC (NRA safe shooters card)

Hi Christian

I think you are skirting around the issue.  there's whole lot of difference between zeroing and target shooting - it's not ambiguous so best of luck in court with that one!

Zeroing is sufficient rounds to calibrate the sights.  If you need more than 5 you're having a bad day.  Any target shooting club that allows you to guest and shoot is likely to fall foul of the FEO sooner than later.

Also, rimfire smallbore has an exemption (for fairground galleries etc) so don't read that across to centre fire.

30 minutes ago, Christian.. said:

Right,

My closest ranges state membership available or visitors rates apply. Maybe I'm misinterpreting this for being able to shoot without being a member. 

I'd discuss this with them.  A visitor still needs to meet Home Office rules.

3 minutes ago, Christian.. said:

Thanks for the info,

My Fac isn't restricted to any particular land and also states zeroing practice on ranges. Is this normal ? I usually just zero on the land I shoot on. 

You are missing the point I think mate.  You can't shoot on a target range as a target shooter without being a member of a bona-fide target shooting club.

Zeroing isn't 'target shooting'  (beyond the obvious)

5 hours ago, Christian.. said:

Thanks Mattnall,

I'm having a run up my local club today to have a chat and collect some ammo whilst there.

I've been reading through the home office good reason guidelines and also the 9th Report of the firearms consultative committee. These guys go into detail on components and parts. 

Between the both documents I think I've established good reason for everything I require. I'm going to stick my list down on a variation and see how it goes. I already have good reason established for a 243 a 22Lr and a 223 so that should makes things easer going forward. 

I like the idea of keeping my good reason away from a shooting club if possible so I won't constantly need to be a member of one club or another. I'd like to be able to just turn up at shoots and pay for guest use when I want to target shoot and zero. That's the route I'm going to try to go down. If anyone else uses this method it would be great to know. 

Unless you have Target Shooting on your FAC you can't 'just turn up and pay as a guest' at any legitimate target range.  You may get away with shooting at an ad-hoc 'zeroing' range like Garlands / Catton Park (Staffs) but no target shooting club should legally accept you to shoot as a guest (with only shooting over land FAC) except possibly on a bona-fide prearranged and notified guest day.

20 minutes ago, saddler said:

I can throw in a pair of ammo boots and some Scottish falling down water.

WISH the f*ckin recruiters knew their arses from their elbows.
He was Scots Guards recruit - had a MINOR issue once IN Catterick (that had been present for 5 or 6 years) and had been waved off at all pre-joining medicals, initial Basic medical, etc.
Initially they said it wasn't a problem, then it WAS but the army would make sure it was fixed while in their care & he'd not be medically discharged, then some RAMC spunktrumpet decides it's a huge problem (it wasn't*) so he gets a medical discharge.

*Based on a couple of very qualified specialist consultants who assessed and treated the issue, with zero evidence from very extensive tests of the problem the RAMC quack dreamed up.
Sadly, as he's been operated on I can no longer beckon him by the correct terminology, Clarence...

ANYWAY - he's been trying to get back in for a good few months. Between the Training Coy in Catterick, the Admin cockwombles in Wilts and the local recruiting office, I fear for the UK infantry's ability to fire a group of five rounds in the direction of the enemy. 

It's got to be so bad he has also applied to join the Navy - they must be hard up as they want to put him in a tin fish thing that hides under the waves - but again, no real speed on getting him from under our feet to under theirs. They are insisting on him having a passport first. None of my relatives were asked for one on that trip they did to Normandy in '44 - there were no frogs around to show one too anyway!
@John MH - anyone need a batman, mess orderly, crap house commando?

is the lad aware he's up for sale or barter?  You could try eBay?

if you anneal (stress relieve) after sizing the dimensions will change anyway.

As above, anneal then size then load.

Looks like it's been a bit windy at Eskdalemuir - for those that don't know, the benches used to be under a canopy with side & front screens !

42 minutes ago, Dellboy said:

create one in excell print as required ...

 does anyone believe a sellers round count ?

It wouldn't be 'proper' and all 'Merican.

I've never met a fellow shooter that hasn't been scrupulously honest at all times -  "only 200 rounds in ten years mate? I'm sold"       🤣😂

True-Flite SG (Special Geometry) is a similar idea to 5R, according to True-Flite NZ.   I have a 32" 1:10 Ultra Match grade SG in .338.  Works for me shooting 300gn Lapua at 2850fps.   True-Flite are button rifles and lapped so the surface finish is excellent.

I'm not convinced that there's anything wrong with 'conventional' rifling and cleaning is as much to do with the quality of the bore surface finish.

For .308 (only one rifle in use) I've observed no benefit between bumping back the shoulder or just neck sizing with a collet die.  Never had a tight-close bolt.  I stress-relieve (😉) every 5 reloads and F/L size as the brass changes dimensionally during heat processing.  I'm still using my Lapua brass (large primer) after 10 reloads.  I load reasonably hot (43.5gn N140 under 155).

For .338 using Lapua brass I find I need to bump back 2 thou every time so I use a bushing die set-up. Unless I do that, I find the bolt just a tiny bit snug - ie zero headspace.  I also load quite hot so the brass (and my shoulder) gets a good work-out.  I'm "annealing" every time because .338 brass costs a kings ransom and I don't shoot it too often for it be a chore.

Badgers have to work while old dogs get to play all day and every day !

27 minutes ago, snakeman said:

 

Need this to be under a fiver if they're trying sell a ruler & pencil with a pad which already has the lines - a stitch-up 😕

B&M Bargains do Jumbo pad for a quid! 😁

I was allowing for a Staedtler propelling pencil.........

Busted!

24 minutes ago, simgre said:

Yes please, I'll have that. I'll PM you.

Yours:  SOLD