Popsbengo

21 minutes ago, Re-Pete said:

I'd like to add that IMHO, inconsistent neck tension will have more effect on MV, SD, ES or group size than miniscule variations in case volume or charge weight.

But then I could be wrong...................

Pete

that makes good sense.  Neck tension affects starting pressure therefore burn quality.  I wonder though is this why jamming works well by effectively 'normalising' the starting pressure and reducing the influence of neck tension?  Some people seem to think light and lubricated necks are a good idea - I'm not convinced.

52 minutes ago, Ralpharama said:

Rogiet is the closest to me and whilst I prefer 1000 yards, 600m is great for .223. I'd be interested to know if the military are still shooting on it? I don't understand how the mantlet being low is unsafe. The bloody range was built in very recent times so presumably calculations were made for safety? Or could this be new legislation from the EU? If the military speced it wrong in the first place, as a tax payer I want to know why.

 

Blaming the EU ?  Way to go there with that stretch 😁

2 minutes ago, lee w 118 said:

If say i have a 22-250 on my ticket , and i want to try 22-250 Ackley will i need a new 1 for1 on ackley or is 22 -250 classed the same on ticket,  cheers Lee. All it is i want to have a ackley in the calibre i have already got on my ticket 👍

I believe you will be ok.

I'd be gobsmacked if your FEO knew the difference !

25 minutes ago, JabaliHunter said:

Can't see any good reason not to FL size unless you have a very poor match between chamber and die dimensions

I believe the presumption is that fire formed cases are somehow dimensionally unstable:  I've seen little good evidence to support that presumption.  Results from some F Class shooters is not evidence as we are not getting data from shooters that do not F/L size to compare (or I can't find sufficient to judge for myself).

When full length resizing we are impressing the dimensions of the die onto the case;  that therefore presumes the die is accurate and concentric.  This may be a big presumption with regard to some dies.  The quality of the brass's 'springiness' will partly determine the final dimensions.  I contend that F/L sized cases must have variation; how much depends on a number of factors.

Now if we suppose a die is machined to be exactly the same as a chamber:  that would satisfy the F/L presumption that we are creating exact ammunition with regard to every case.  I would argue that we're doing that in the chamber by fire forming.  F/L sizing cold brass vs  fire-forming brass under great heat:  which results in the most accurate and repeatable case dimension?  I'd like to see some real-world measurements.

When the powder ignites pressure pushes against the case with great force and heat.  For a F/L sized case in a slack chamber that distortion may not be consistent shot to shot.  If the case fits tight to the chamber, surely the pressure distortion is constrained to be more consistent ?

The heart of this issue to me is, that what ever we do in resizing, it's different to the actual chamber. 

Results matter, do what makes you happy and successful

1 hour ago, Re-Pete said:

What Pops said...........keep necking only until they just start to get a bit tight, then a gentle squeeze in a body die or the excellent Forster "Shoulder bump bushing die" until they just go in easily, and your brass will last and last..............

And don't forget to anneal the necks every 5 or 6 firings.

Pete

yep, I forgot to add "anneal",  works wonders for case life

Until next year...

Do what works for you.  Neck sizing extends case life.  Knowing what you shoot Badger I wouldn't worry about the F Class latest fashion and what some shouty man on Youboob says.

I've done a comparison for myself with .308 -  No observable difference at 600yds.  Maybe with a tight chamber F class with a long barrel and everything else sorted to the last decimal, there's a value in the argument about returning brass to SAAMI/CIP every time but brass life is surely irrelevant to those at the cutting edge?

I resize .338 to knock back the shoulders 2thou from fire formed as it chambers better in my tight custom rifle. Does alright at long distance as you've observed.

16 minutes ago, ds1 said:

The best explanation that I have heard is that a three shot group can show you what does not work well in your rifle but it takes a five shot group to show you what does work well in your rifle.

👍.  That's what i do.

Statistically the more the better however I'd be concerned that 'shooter fatigue' may distort the results.

The factors being judged:  load consistency (powder, bullet, brass, primer, assembly); rifle consistency (temperature, fouling, mechanical stability); environmental consistency (wind, temperature, pressure, humidity).  And the big one:  shooter skill.    Obviously some factors are very well controlled through a short string of shots.  The wind isn't one and neither is skill

During development I shoot three shots.  Five for final confirmation when close.   Bloody expensive for big stuff!

ELD secant ogive bullets are reported to be very sensitive to load jump/jam.  I have found that to be the case too.  It's yet another complication for load development !

I shoot 155 Lapua Scenar and get excellent results out to 600yds.  The great thing about them is they are longer than SMK and still have good neck engagement when loaded long.

I've tried Hornedy ELD-M with very mixed results at .308 but with very good results with .338 out to 2000yds.

Nice one M !   You've opened a really interesting box of ferrets I think.

I look forward to the "debate"  😉

1 hour ago, Miseryguts said:

Hi, I am in the depths of working up loads for a 308 win rifle, trying various bullets etc. Two of the bullets are of the tipped low drag variety (no names) when loaded to maximum SAAMI spec COAL (2.810) with this rifle have huge jumps to the lands (over 100 thou.) The "worst" has a jump of 127 thou when loaded to a COAL of 2.850, which just fits the magazine. 

Has any one else come across this, or is the chamber on my rifle out of kilter?

Not had chance to shoot these trial loads yet, as waiting for a gap in the rain!

M twiddling his thumbs and worrying in wet wet monmouthshire

My rifle has a 100 thou jump with SMK155 when loaded to magazine length and it shoots well.  For sure it's better when loaded long but that may be other factors too.

Don't agonise over it. As JCS says;  just go and shoot it!

13 hours ago, Nick 53 said:

Hi, 

Does anyone know were you can sell your old and knackered brass. My local scrap merchant won't deal with it even though the brass is de-primed. 

Thanks nick 

There's a scrappy who takes our brass in Stoke.  It's not much so I doubt you'd recoup your fuel cost from Manchester.  Try phoning around.

Kind of makes sense to ensure the guns open up at the right time 😁

Did you have officers that could tell the time? That's why the Sergeant got the pick!  😂

I think we had an accurate clock in our vehicle to time the card swaps in the BID200 - we'd get an arse kicking if we went too soon or was too slow.  Other than that it was good to know when the PRI was due with the beer and fags

4 hours ago, iamJim said:

Thanks,

I have to say, everywhere i read, the quality of the Henry comes up as a positive.  My only concern is the tube loading and if you think its not a deal breaker maybe i'll have a look at one.

Possibly a problem if a grizzly bear is running towards you and you've got to get one up the spout right quick but otherwise I find no issue with tube loading (45/70 so only five rounds).

52 minutes ago, Mattnall said:

You aren't allowed to let off fireworks anywhere you want, there are also age restrictions and nuisance laws.

Replace 'firearm' with 'air rifle' then, see how that now works.

However my point was not about the law but about the rash generalisations and the wanting to ban something that was not to your liking. What if it was TR guys saying there is no need for self loaders, or the hunters seeing no need for target shooting (or god forbid the tactical training thinly disguised as PLR or CSR), and having it all banned because one person goes crazy and breaks the law.

Don't ban the thing for the actions of the individual, apply the law and ban the individual.

I would agree in an ideal world, it's much the better way.  But I just don't know how that's to be achieved before the fact.  Mass profiling? 

ie how does society identify the wrong 'uns before they commit a crime/nuisance ?    I point at gun control (lack of) in USA resulting in horrendous acts for my example.

4 hours ago, Mattnall said:

Swap the word 'firework' with 'rifle' and then it gets closer to home.

Banning something because you don't like it is short sighted and narrow minded. Are you saying the firework is to blame? Like saying the gun is to blame for all the gang shootings or knives are the problem when it comes to stabbings.

Now banning the person(s) being antisocial or dangerous is another kettle of fish.

Sorry, that just doesn't work.  More than a few irresponsible fools create the need for controls on access to dangerous stuff.  To take your argument to a logical conclusion it would require wholesale social controls to prevent "undesirables" access to otherwise freely available items. How would that be done and on what basis?

Much easier to control general access and then permit persons endorsed as safe.  Like firearms.  I'd be happy to see fireworks controlled much more tightly.  If idiots just hurt themselves I wouldn't really care overly but it's the harm and distress to pets and the risks to kids that need controls by society because we can't trust the idiots.

1 hour ago, brown dog said:

Would depend on job, and whether 'needing to know the time' was part of that job, so, generally, Cpl and above if in a command position eg sect comd, gun no1, tank comd, or, maybe LCpl as 2IC. Watches were G1098, issued to sub unit as MODACS for individual issue by the sub-unit Q: SQMS/CQMS/BQMS

I was a Section Commander but no issued watch!  Maybe they thought by "T" band pay was sufficient to buy my own from the NAAFI shop 😁

It's unusual that the issue watch was actually of some merit because most of the personal kit we had in the 70s was rubbish (SLR excepted).

Ok, serious question:  Who or in what capacity was a soldier/sailor or airman actually issued with a watch?  I never saw or heard of such a thing while holding back the Russian horde in North West Germany in the 70s.  My brother scored a Rolex while serving in Oman in the late 60s but I suspect he bought it from an Arab (it's not one of those loverly ones in the video unfortunately)

Just now, geek said:

I bought a 1942 military Omega (many years ago), yet I have never served In the military, does that make me a Walt?

of course it doesn't,  anymore than owning a LE No.4 or P14. 

What makes a "Walt" is pretending to have served thereby stealing kudos from those that have.  I think we know one when we see one at the range  - especially those sporting Army camo and G-Shock watch with the attempted 1000yd stare;  "I was there man, it was intense.."   😉😁   Deserving of nothing but ridicule and disrespect.

31 minutes ago, Re-Pete said:

" Don't G-Shock do a Walt edition? "😂😂😂😂😂

Pete

Apparently I should shut up and not make sarcastic comments according to Terryh.   Please stop enjoying my stupid comments, I shall repent 😉

7 minutes ago, terryh said:

Every &Lordy thread you have to jump in with the  ‘walt’ bit, or ridiculing anyone that does not fit in with your view 

Every? I think you exaggerate T.

Don't G-Shock do a Walt edition?

2 hours ago, ds1 said:

OWC or Ladder - for me about as effective as trying to herd cats. What I mean is whatever results you get one day will change when temperatures change ( ok a bit extreme here, I shoot over a year from -20c to +35c) but changes in temperature will effect at least 5 things, primer ignition, powder burn rate, expansion / contraction of barrel, case and bullet friction. All of which will change barrel harmonics. I don’t even think it’s as simple as adding/ reducing powder to maintain a specific velocity. 

So unless you only shoot within a given (small) temperature range how useful / repeatable are the results? 

100% agree.  statistical phantoms

I have a Henry in 45/70 and a Marlin in 44Rem.   The Marlin was absolute crap out of the box (I believe they're a lot better now), I had to spend hours fettling the action and trigger to work well.

The standard buckhorn sights don't work for me so I fitted a peephole vernier sight.

The Henry is excellent in all departments - the magazine loading is a matter of taste.  The ghost-ring sights are good but I prefer a scope.

I had a good look at Chiappa a few weeks ago and they are impressive on the face of it (I didn't get to shoot one).

If you intend to fit a scope, Winchester actions are more restrictive due to top eject.

On 10/23/2019 at 9:38 AM, Ronin said:

12” is min league length and weapon must me longer than 24” 

 

Cant imagine a 30/30 will come close at that spec

 

45/70 on the other hand ,,,

Assuming a foldable stock, is 24" minimum length with the stock folded?