Popsbengo

Yes it was at Carmountside in Stoke.  Very well attended.  Steve was a character for sure, he will be missed.

46 minutes ago, dave thorniley said:

well all i can say is i love my remmy,s, i dont want a 1 hole 10 shot group at 2000 yds, ive never had a bad one and i hit and kill what im shootingat, but if you wanna spend a bit of your cash on  your remmy do it, its money well spent, but a friend of mine had a nice remmy in 223 rem, and it shot i/2 at 100yds straight out of the box, he got it blueprinted a jewel trigger, had the h.s stock bedded, paid  a few bob on it, guess what it shot? 1/2 group, i think most factory  rifles could do with a bit fettling,  but thats why they call them  a factory rifle, remington. ruger. winchester. tikka.  sako. brno cz. howa. so its up to you what road you go down. cheers dave.

In general I agree Dave but I'm not sure I'd lump all of those rifles you mention under a "factory rifle" group and imply they're all similar.  All cars are 'factory cars' (almost) but we can't seriously compare a Ford to a Bentley.

50 minutes ago, Gluv said:

Alas filters don't get rid of as many nasties as everyone thinks 🙁 .Reverse osmosis is pretty good but distilled is the way to go. 

No goverment is going to scramble my brain with fluoride thank you very much ! 🙂

Gluv 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

🤣

31 minutes ago, sauer said:

Popengos

 

i can but thank you back for  polite discussion ...

 

normally turns into  slanging match

i understand your sporting ethics see where your coming from .... it’s a hard one to defend .... would be easier if ALL involved took birds home and used them ... some should give it up go do clays .... no interest in food.

but for me and many others it the whole day and experience ...& the biodiversity and economics arguments win it for me ....

lot of the grounds if shoots not there would just be overgrown with little species ....

& no rural income , no small hotel or pub etc so n so forth 

its all about balance 

 

defiantly go to   GWCT site read some of their stuff 

And if on Instagram check out likes of

the armchair hunter etc

trying to promote ethical sustainable hinting thru food 

and regarding your sport .... lot of antis don’t give two hoots about wildlife or sport .... they purely anti gun & don’t think ANY public should have access to guns  no matter the discipline...

be warned

 

yours

Paul

 

Cheers Paul

over and out on this subject for me

24 minutes ago, Reloader54 said:

So putting ethics to one side for the moment,, 

do you think if game shooting were to be legislated out of existence your discipline would be allowed to carry on regardless?  

and perhaps more to the point do you think you could defend it were it threatened

by similar legislation.?  you really think because the cute little animals aren't getting killed its all gonna be just dandy?     perhaps you should think back to the banning of pistols as an example.

Put ethics aside? No, that's not how a civilised person should work is it?

Your "cute little animals" comment is crass; cute or not is irrelevant to me but not irrelevant to the general public whom you do need to get on side.  Best of luck with your tactic.  If it comes to a proposal to ban game shooting I won't worry about any ban rolling over into target shooting until there's an actual proposal to counter.  I can't support the narrow interest group you clearly do support however  I will lend my voice to support general vermin control and wild hunting as I've said previously (for the little it's worth).

OK, we are now going around in circles so I'm done on this subject.  Thanks to Sauer for sharing an intelligent opposing view,  it certainly promoted me to review evidence.

54 minutes ago, MJR said:

Ethical grounds? Please explain.

I think that was explained:  My ethics preclude supporting the rearing and shooting of birds as sporting targets.  What your ethical stance maybe, is your business, I suspect it's different to mine and that's ok by me.  I'll say it again ad-nauseam: why "must" I support the game-bird  shooting industry just because I have a FAC/SGC?  I reject the simplistic logic of "all standing together", it's not an effective strategy when foolish language is used to denigrate opposing views

8 minutes ago, gazzarM1 said:

That may be the case but I already have one.

 

ah, OK, so no need to buy a March though 😁

12 hours ago, gazzarM1 said:

Using a reasonably strong 250 gr SMK load ...at the 1000yd gong  my Data tells me I need 38 moa on top to reach the mile... my Nsx will only give me another 21 moa.... the Spuhr should get me there methinks

Whilst doing my research I have found that the Kahles 624i seemingly has more adjustment than  a PM11 need to do another check though..

I have a .338LM shooting 300gn Lap Scenar.   I have 20moa rail + 20moa mount with an S&B PM11,  I need +38moa from 1000 to a mile too.  No problem.  I can dial out to max of 2200yds.  The Kahles 624i had just been discontinued I think??

Sauer, you make powerful points and I respect that.  I think what you say is factually correct however I have a problem with the ethics (my problem not yours).   I eat meat, I've killed to eat meat, I see no problem with culling invasive and damaging species (especially if it's edible).  I also try to only purchase ethically reared meat even though that's expensive.

Yes, game shooting provides much needed work in rural communities, yes many of the sporting shoots rear birds well and respect the environment however I can't get past the idea of the "sporting" aspect of providing living beings as targets (even granted some of the kills can be eaten).  I remain unconvinced that the primary purpose is food - it's "sport" for many of those that shoot - I'm very willing to appreciate the need to not tar everyone with the same brush, there are shooters who primarily want birds for the pot but you must agree there are those that are just in it for the killing.

Getting back to the OP,  I was struck by the expectation that all shooters must blind themselves to other considerations and just support each other irrespective of other factors.  Referring to opposing views as "nazi" just hardens those views. Other posters have weighed in with abuse and emotional outbursts against nothing other than an opposing view.  That sort of arguing isn't going to convince those that make decisions that affect their lives and recreation. Surely, the best approach is, as you have set out, argue with facts.   I don't agree with large scale rearing of birds for shooting on ethical grounds, I don't want to see people out of work, life is complex, we do what we feel is right.

Who's anti-hunting?  I think I expressed pro hunting views in earlier posts.  My only beef is with the industry of raising birds to shoot them for 'sport'.  I'm quite happy to recognise that the game industry does have conservation objectives but that's only as a by-product of the industry.  Just about all of the UK is a man-made environment, that's clear.  I do not consider raising masses of birds to shoot them a reasonable thing.

I can't see why you can't just accept a differing point of view without resorting to emotional outbursts.  Just because I have an FAC doesn't follow that I must support an industry I don't approve of does it?

Reasonable debate is always worth it I thought.

Not ignorant just different.  If you shout louder maybe you will change minds?

30 minutes ago, Gluv said:

You should still be able to zero at 100 with a 45 moa mount .

+ 1 for the  sphur 👍🇬🇧🇬🇧

Gluv, I know anything EU hurts you like kryptonite but surly it's 🇸🇪🇸🇪🇪🇺    😁

2 hours ago, Jet flint said:

Pressure wise, a mid range up sailing salopette cannot be beaten. It depends how much walking action they are going to get or if you need to be a bit less obvious. Musto offer some good country waterproofs based on their sailing ranges.

+1 for sailing if total waterproofing is more important than breathability.

33 minutes ago, Pat Allen said:

You basically wind die in until it seats on shell holder with press at max stroke . Back off about 3/4. Turns . Size case and check measurement required the adjust down until desired shoulder length is hit . Same for all resizer dies basically .

sort of agree - I would adjust so as to feel a good over camming (on a RCBS Rockchucker). This is a full length resize to SAAMI spec.   I think 3/4 backed off is a long way to start from to adjust the holder bump but each to their own.

Spuhr mounts - Sportman Gun Centre.  Excellent quality but a bit expensive

Measured on Google Earth, given the range to the targets as exactly 1000yds, then the very top of the sand bullet catcher is +40 yards.

2 hours ago, BlueBoy69 said:

 

New? I've been here for for some time (2015), but I normally just get ignored. This even though doing this sort of has been my job for years.

You have to upset other posters by disagreeing to get an answer 😁🤣

2 hours ago, Orka Akinse said:

So very true

+1

I'm a little mystified as to why someone buys an ordinary tool and then spends a shed load on making it better (excepting those that do it for themselves out of interest & learning). Isn't it simpler to buy a better rifle in the first place?

1 hour ago, No i deer said:

A new Laurie Holland on the block.....

It will be nice to get Laurie's opinion..

2 hours ago, BlueBoy69 said:

It's most likely to do with how the primer output pressurises and ignites the propellant bed. Pressurisation of the bed, before full ignition, affects the projectile's initial motion, its debulleting from the case, and its initial motion into the bore.

The US Army Research Laboratory (ARL) has been doing an awful lot of fundamental research into this sort of thing. Most likely to do with the development of their new small arms cartridge.

It's all pretty complex and I don't profess to fully understand it enough to explain it more than I have already. It's covered in a load of non-classified papers that the ARL have released to the public. I've listed a few papers below for people who are interested in reading about it.

A Study of the Engraving of the M855 5.56-mm Projectile - ARL-TR-4743 (2009)

Experimental Studies of the No. 41 Primer and Ignition of 5.56-mm Ammunition (ARL-TR-3922)(2006)

In-Chamber Primer Force and Case Pressure Measurements of the 5.56-mm Cartridge - ARL-TR-5862 (2012)

Novel Diagnostics of 5.56 Ammunition Interior Ballistics (2012)

Primer Output and Initial Projectile Motion for 5.56- and 7.62-mm Ammunition - ARL-TR-7479 (2015)

Progress Toward a Multidimensional Representation of the 5.56-mm Interior Ballistics (ARL-TR-4903)(2009)

I have all these and more in my technical documents library if you can't find them online or what more data on the subject.

I've just finished reading "Experimental Studies of the No. 41 Primer and Ignition of 5.56-mm Ammunition (ARL-TR-3922)(2006)".  Very interesting and worth the read for those of a technical mind.  One quick take-away finding was that the primer combustion only penetrated into 40% of the powder charge and (later in the paper) that powder compression close to the seated bullet impedes full combustion.  Compressed loads are sub-optimal in their experimental findings.

The findings that it's the primer that propels the bullet forward into the lands is very interesting:

Abstract From "Primer Output and Initial Projectile Motion for 5.56- and 7.62-mm Ammunition - ARL-TR-7479 (2015)"

"A novel technique for quantifying the initial motion of projectiles in unmodified small-caliber ammunition (5.56 and 7.62 mm) is demonstrated. Evidence that the primer launches the bullet into the engraving process prior to propellant burning is presented. The impulse resulting from the primers' (Nos. 41 and 34, respectively) output is measured and compared with the bullet momentum"

Thanks for digging those papers out BluBoy

3 hours ago, English said:

When I was an apprentice for a Swiss company, I visited a machine tool works in Zurich and was in awe of the size of the tables and machine beds used to machine pillars, tables,  the knee and many more parts of both horizontal and vertical milling machine's and CNC milling machines and lathe beds and gear cutters etc. I was even more surprised to find they were being machined on English Machine tools!

Those were the days!  We had a 100,000sqft of machine shop full of Brit. made machines but those manufacturers have pretty much all gone now.  Bugger.

On 8/19/2019 at 2:29 PM, quicko said:

do you know if this is the model that you can fit the Mil reticle eye piece to ?

I have a similar model and it does accept the mil reticle.  

RIP Bradders,  I enjoyed your wit and common sense, you will be missed indeed.  Condolences to his family.

Just now, Reloader54 said:

"robust debate"  can be good indeed, however reading some posts it's hard to believe some people here actually possess any guns. 

surely a compliment on fine accuracy makes for a better discussion than arguing over the type of target. 

👍

I was not particularly commenting on the hares in the truck so 'those facts' aren't overly relevant to me (but I do think it an awful thing).

Spout publicly?  You mean express a view some are not happy hearing? Is this forum only a safe space for like-minded persons?

I'm not sure one can deny that the release of tens of thousands of game birds to shoot is anything other than wholesale?  It's a major money making operation for estates is it not?

I'm not promoting a split - I'm denying there's ever been a collective view!  If there is please point me at the evidence and I'll gladly review my belief.