Popsbengo

Just now, One on top of two said:

Time  will tell if your definition is the correct one. 
 

I do hope it is the case but I also believe there needs to be some serious clarity on this for the sake of all concerned. 
I will however for the time being stick with my opinion 🤔

A sensible personal choice.  Hopefully clarity will follow soon because there's an awful lot of historic shooters going to be very p@**ed off with yet another hit on range availability.  I'm very glad indeed to have access to civilian ranges for my primary club that permit "any legal calibre" (excepting HME) whether it loads from the breech or the muzzle.

5 minutes ago, One on top of two said:

tenuous..... 

Why so?  It's a factual point - the Police & Firearms define calibre by the designation on the firearm not by some measurement of actual bullet diameters.  The MoD has limited calibers to 7.62mm which is .300"  - so best not use a 30cal bullet by your logic as it's .308"  ??

Perhaps the NRA could usefully clarify what the MoD are actually trying to achieve and what is/isn't allowed under the current restrictions?

3 minutes ago, SMLE said:

Agree completely with Orka. However, I believe the ban is calibre specific and not bullet diameter specific and therefore in my opinion, 303 would still be OK.

After all, Mosin Nagants are 7.62 yet fire the same .312 bullet as the 303.

I agree, surely it's how the FEO defines calibre - "it's what's stamped on the barrel that matters".  The MoD haven't banned "greater diameter than 7.62/308" after all.

1 hour ago, BlueBoy69 said:

Some info I sent some friends from the local rifle club about making low-velocity ammo now that the import of IMR's Trail Boss is banned due to the European REACH (Registration, Evaluation, Authorisation and Restriction of Chemicals) regulation coming into force.

I'm starting to use Vihtavuori's N32C 'Tin Star' as a substitute for Trail Boss.

The bulk (load) density of Trail Boss in a 100% filled case, non-compacted/compressed, is 0.310 g/cm³ (grams per centimetre cubed). Tin Star is about 0.459 g/cm³, Unique 0.593 g/cm³. So quite low density, but not as low as Trail Boss. For note, ball powders are commonly around 0.910g/cm³ and stick (single perforation) around 0.840 g/cm³.

 

Trail Boss also has a relatively low energy density of 3,090 kJ/kg (kilojoules per kilogram), with Tin Star at 3,040 kJ/kg, so slightly lower. For note double base flake powder Unique is around 4,550 kJ/kg and Bullseye is 5,158 kJ/kg.

So as you can't get Trail Boss any more (I've still got two tubs), try Vihtavuori's N32C 'Tin Star'.

excellent info thanks

1 minute ago, Orka Akinse said:

Allowing activities to take place on the range that are clearly outside the agreed parameters for use of said range that have been imposed on the range, coupled with it being in direct contradiction of the RASP you or the club submitted,  will end very very badly for the individual(s) and the club and may well have wide reaching implications for ALL civilian use.

yes I fully agree hence "I'd want to...but". Hypotheticals all.  A few RCOs I have met, might like to consider your wise counsel though..

7 minutes ago, Miseryguts said:

Hi, thanks for that, if I had looked at some of my other calibre cases, then I would have seen that! DOH!

All my cases end up with scrape marks on them due to tight ejector pins, I have to clean the brass off the bolt face after every shooting session, no matter what the loads

Trail Boss unavailable, Green Dot and Unique in my cupboard. Both are as fast as Trail boss, but are denser i.e 8gn of trail boss nearly fills the case, 8gn of Green dot is about 1cc, 8gn of Unique is about 0.8 cc - hence green dot! The 150gn RN were a really good price(FREE)

Thanks for the feedback

M (feeling better, basking in the sun in Monmouthshire)

Trailboss will fill the case better and therefor improve consistent burn rates - part of the problem of under-filled cases is the possibility of flash over - this is where the powder ignites across the surface thereby giving a pressure spike that can overpressure your action/chamber, which is not good.  Another method is to pack out the powder with inert material like kapok (traditionally) which just disperses on firing.

Don't tell 'um your name Pike!

If I was RCOing at a military range I'd want to apply the Nelson touch to .303 and 7.92 Mauser but I suspect the consequences of getting 'caught out' by an audit might be too damaging to the club in the long run.  If this turns into a permanent restriction I'd expect the NRA will champion the historic rifles.

I know this rifle and it is certainly a very good one indeed !

Having dealt with them,  I'd be most surprised to learn the MoD actually understood that a .303 (.311) was actually a greater diameter bullet than a .308/7.62 !

7.92 Mauser bad;  30LM / 30Win Mag OK ??  Crazy.

1 hour ago, Gluv said:

😘🙂

 

Ah, that's nice

4 hours ago, No i deer said:

No falling outs just trying to help 👍😁.

It's been wall to wall sunshine here in Bath too 🌞🌞

Out of curiosity why have 2 different types of comparator gadgets.....?

I'm not arguing or falling out with anybody:  I think you may not realise the Sinclair and the Hornady inserts are almost the same thing.  They both fit the Hornady system carrier that clamps to the calliper. The Sinclair is in stainless and has a very slightly different profile to it's bore and the bullet will sit a tiny amount different to the aluminium Hornady insert.  Both would need to be zeroed before taking a reading.  The point is that the calliper is just to compare the bullet seating to the throat so no absolute measurement against any external reference is required.

1 hour ago, Gluv said:

Pops will fall out over anything ! 

He even wants to ignore the democratic vote of 17 million people and stay in the Eu with the traitors in parliament 😂😘

Gluv 😎🇬🇧🇬🇧

What a dick 🤣

😁

No, but I can see the difference between the ones I have.  Anyhow it's not relevant - the same gauge should be used to measure the lands position and set ogive to head length - the gauge isn't a measuring tool - it's a comparator.

Just now, No i deer said:

I'm not sure this is a silly question but did you rezero your calipers when you changed comparator parts,the oal should be the same measurement give or take a thousanth.

Disagree.  The Sinclair insert is not identical to the Hornady insert.  The profile of the respective bore is different.

59 minutes ago, Catch-22 said:

Point is though, the Mil are just being a bit of a pain. All very unnecessary.  

Does seem so; but without understanding why they've gone down this route it's difficult to know if it's unnecessary

I do hope there's a sensible reason and it's not just a bullshit exercise

Just don't get them mixed up!!  I'd sell one insert (the Hornady, stainless-steel is better than aluminium).

In fact I've ordered a Sinclair SS insert for .338 - the Hornady one is too tight really to gauge the .338 bullet without introducing possible errors.

I agree that 600yds paper punching with a .338 is a bit of a waste of ammo.  Living in the North (just) has it's advantages it seems!  Eskdalemuir and back for a full day's shooting is manageable.

The comparator is exactly that - a comparator.  The readings are non-transferable and not relevant to other gauging systems - even another of the same make.

The two inserts will measure off different datums on the ogive (a very small diameter variance will be magnified in length measurements).

It's irrelevant to compare one to the other, the comparison is between a correctly sized case/bullet in your chamber and then a sized assembled round with the desired offset of jam or jump (obviously with the same gauge set up)

Some in Offas' not having much luck these last few months !

12 minutes ago, GeorgeB said:

Let's not get paranoid, the restriction applies to all firearms in calibres greater than 7.62mm - so military and police users will not be able to use 9mm.

Not sure the ban applies to the military.  I can't see why they would "shoot themselves in the foot"

I'm not a believer in conspiracies but I do admit it does look dodgy.

Good job there's some non-MoD ranges approved for big stuff

That implies a probable national DIO review

DIO are not known to be reasonable in my experience.  What might this mean to those members of clubs reliant on MoD ranges with regard to justification for holding large calibre firearms?

I recall having a crazy discussion with DIO management over muzzle loading .44/.45 pistols being banned from Barrack Ranges as they were over range limits for calibre (never mind the fact you can shoot full power 9mm or even .762 rifle!!).

There's "temporary" restrictions on any calibre above .308/7.62 on West Midlands & Wales MoD ranges.  I'd be interested to understand what brought that about.

https://nra.org.uk/temporary-restriction-mod-ranges-in-wales-and-west-midlands/