Popsbengo

10 minutes ago, Private Marker said:

Popsbengo I  prefer a different Tina Turner track......

Simply the Best

🤢🤮

Self praise is no praise at all 

1 minute ago, SMLE said:

I think my earnest belief that my vote mattered is rapidly becoming fanciful speculation too 😥

Don't worry you can have another go - just get it right this time 😉😲😯

(I'm expecting Glov along any minute..)

Why do I keep hearing that Tina Turner song  "I'm a private marker, marking for money, I'll do what you want me to do..."   😂

49 minutes ago, SMLE said:

Crikey! Sounds like Pops is accepting that Brexit will happen..... 😊

Have we worn you down mate?

Never!  I was indulging in fanciful speculation...

🇪🇺😁

It'll be more difficult but I would suspect not much, after all Americans, Canadians, Indians etc shoot at Bisley - why should it be different for French, German, Swedish etc?

25 minutes ago, Brillo said:

I found seaclean about as good as a fart in a sieve. Try a tablespoonful of citric acid and the same if dishwasher liquid. Ten times better.

agree however I find a heaped teaspoon in two litres is good for 100 cases.  A small splash of Swarfega multi surface cleaner detergent works well combined with citric acid

23 minutes ago, DaveT said:

Slowly but surely getting FUBARed with loss of af Field Firing ranges, calibre restrictions and now spurious safety issues.

I have no interest in short range activity  and waning interest in paper targetry at single distances all day long....extremely boring!

From my perspective my shooting is being gradually suffocated.

I am just too far from Diggle, Eskdalmuir etc to be practical / affordable.

Is there no end to whats been happening over the last couple of years?

As for military ranges being 'their bat and ball' ....who do they think provides the bloody taxes to pay for them?!😤

It is a bummer for sure but not sure I can buy "spurious safety issues" without actually knowing what the issue is.

Isn't Bisley  a reasonable distance from you?

DIO buggering civilians around isn't new.  

Kingsbury had the back stop raised and lanes reduced.  The 200mil rule was suspended.  If the military are on King. B. then Kings. A must conform to their programme of shooting - ie 100yds in many cases!

Whittington has completely been removed from civilian use it seems.  The barrack ranges were closed following some incidents (army) that prompted further risk assessment.  The gallery range has never been available since it was "upgraded".

Bottom line is the ranges are military assets and will be run as they see fit, there seems little customer/supplier relationship management with civilian clubs.

I feel for those clubs and their members that are totally reliant on the DIO ranges.  I don't know what can be done other than lobbying by the NRA

2 hours ago, DaveT said:

I see that this range is now closed due to 'safety issues'.

The lackof availability of ranges is getting serious if you want any distance.

Is this part off the ongoing Wales & West Midlands DIO issue?  

3 hours ago, Catch-22 said:

I would ask...does it really matter?

Whatever method you use to do your measuring, as long as it’s consistent, repeatable and the results on target make you smile... then it doesn’t really matter does it?

👍 🔫

👍 exactly

8 minutes ago, Triffid said:

There is a simple way of aligning scopes with no equipment other than the rifle . . .

Firstly make sure its unloaded, for reasons which will become obvious later.

Fit the scope in its rings with the eye-relief correct. Tighten the rings so they gently grip the scope, but still allow you to rotate it.

With the rifle-muzzle pointing straight upwards and the rifle butt on the floor, align the middle of the toe and heel of the rifle butt along a line on the floor -  a floorboard join or a straight line drawn on a piece of paper.

Look down the scope the 'wrong' way so you're looking at the floor. You should be able to see the reticle superimposed on the flood-board join.

Rotate the scope until they are parallel and tighten up.

This takes a few seconds to do and aligns the scope with the stock of the rifle (which you hold!) rather than its action.

 

Triffid

One way to get a starting position but not so sure how accurate that would be when tracking out to maximum on elevation. That is what counts - the elevation tracks plum vertical with no side component.

Slightly off topic:  I recently did a "survey" of shooters during a meeting to see how many canted their rifles.  Very scientific - I stood behind and looked 😀.  Quite surprisingly there were more than a few with noticeably severe cants and one or two seemed to have variable canting (and their results showed it!).  These were not novices but "experienced" shots.  Experience does not equal skill !

I certainly need a bubble to ensure my natural hold doesn't cant over  - I'd recommend them to anyone shooting long distances.  I can't have my rifle 'waiving about' outside at home so I set my Sphur mount level off the rifle (I use a tripod and lash up jig). Fit the scope up in the mount and check it tracks vertically against a handy Vodafone comms pole.  Torque everything up and recheck.  Then fit to the rifle so the barrel axis is sitting plum below the scope axis.  Any out of true with the rail is so small as to be negligible in my experience.

5 hours ago, Fox Tales said:

 Now we take a different tack and decide to neck size only. We know that the cases have gained length and it's measurable using a headspace gauge. If the case has gained 10thou' then the bullet seating has proportionately changed and the jump increased. The reason behind this is that during the mechanics of the firing cycle the case is pushed forward in the chamber and using the shoulders as a stop .

Applying this should we increase COAL to accommodate and if this is the case would calculating shoulder to tip length be of more use ?If this is the case then seating dies are fundamentally flawed and seating should be in relation to the shoulder .

1 hour ago, Brillo said:

I suggest the best and only really accurate way to measure your COAL and BTCO fir any bullet is to use the empty bolt method.

Remove the firing pin, roughly seat the bullet too long and try to close the bolt. Keep doing this in 2 thou intervals until eventually the bolt handle drops without assistance. That’s your dead accurate measurement.

There’s a YouTube video showing how it’s done if you care to search for it.

It's a comparative tool so as long as the parts of your comparator, including the case, are kept the same then just allow an offset for the measured length of the non-fired and fire-formed cases.  Once you have a starting position it's down to development until you get an optimised load - just measure the real-world optimised load with your ogive comparator and duplicate going forward.

Measuring COAL to the tip is not the way to go for accuracy (though you need to be aware of it for magazine fit).

As I have the lathe and tools I do my own fire-formed cases just to avoid adding offsets:  5/16 x 36 UNS is the thread for Hornady tool.  Tapping drill is a letter "L" drill.  The tap is an unusual size - Tracy Tools have them but they're not cheap!

The drop bolt method does apply more force to the bullet even when dropping without any detectable resistance so it will seat deeper in the lands by a few thou.  I find either method (done properly) is repeatable so either will give you a comparison to start with and you can work from there to optimise seating.

1 hour ago, maximus otter said:

“Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it’s enemy action.”

Auric Goldfinger

maximus otter

Oh dear..

8 hours ago, ezmobile said:

I'm pleased to see that others have read this and have concerns. To me, it reeks of the incessant "Creep" of legislation against legitimate firearm ownership in the UK & European countries. Its much easier to slowly make it more and more difficult for people to pursue a pastime, thereby forcing them give it up one by one, than it is to have a quick outright ban - along with its resultant claims for compensation!

If this were indeed the aim, it would of course have a detrimental effect on UK / EU companies, but as anyone who reloads knows(or even those that don't) a lot, if not most, consumables come from the US so the negative effects of a ban wouldn't be shouldered solely by companies on this side of the pond, but be spread globally.

Not wishing to delve into politics here, but I wonder if we do indeed leave the EU at some point in the near future, will we in the UK be able to swerve around this impending EU legislation? 

Cheers all. 

 

Can't agree (there's a surprise!), it's a primarily a drive to reduce environmental lead pollution and any negative affects on gun ownership are secondary to that, not some "creeping" legislation to further undermine legitimate gun ownership - that's conspiracy-theory thinking I feel.  That said, it is likely the fallout of any lead-control legislation may affect the shooting community somewhere down the line.   I feel your expectation for an Brexited UK not implementing lead controls in the future is likely to end in disappointment!

yes spotted it.   Most EU nations have extensive shooting sports so there will be much resistance I'm sure.  I'd worry about it when there's actual proposals being put forward.

10 hours ago, No i deer said:

Some use dry lube in the neck for neck tension mandrels and seat the bullet on this dry lube that's still in the neck.

I won't mention any names but I know someone who does this who recently chronied some ammo and had an ES of 0 fps and I seen the chrony reading

does this person jam into the lands or jump?

Interesting,  but I'm unconvinced.  U/S cleaning is followed by sizing is it not?  The article completely skips over that.

The pictures in the article are pre-sizing through a die I assume.  Sizing operations require lubed necks.  I'd like to see similar pictures after sizing using a button or a collet mandrel.  Very hard steel (or TiN) button or mandrel burnishing the brass under great compressive force.  As Brillo describes, I have also used a neck mandrel with dry lube - this is doing a similar burnishing as the sizing operation above.

Surely spinning a brush in the brass will create annular scratches of a greater depth than the U/S surface erosion.  If it's done before sizing it'll be subject to the same burnishing as I describe so no better than U/S I expect.

I can't see there being any problem with a little dry lube on assembly of the bullet as long as neck tension (or bullet jam) is sufficient to achieve efficient starting conditions for combustion.  I just don't think it's necessary and it's also possibly counter-productive in some circumstances.

Getting back to the original post - Real world results are what counts.  Try some experiments and see

1 hour ago, Re-Pete said:

Bit of carbon in the neck helps the bullet to slip out easily..............if I  clean my cases, I lube the inside of the necks with Lee die lube.

Probably a waste of time, like cleaning the cases in the first place, but it makes me feel good.........😊

Pete

My understanding is thus:

If you have a bullet jammed in the lands then little more than a slip-fit is probably ok to achieve a good starting pressure for complete combustion.  Otherwise, a "loose" or "slippy" fit is a bad idea as the bullet will move forward under initial combustion and starting pressures will not be high enough for proper and full combustion.  This will lead to low and erratic MV and unburnt powder.

A good consistent neck is what's wanted for accuracy.  Polishing (and lub!) seems the wrong way to go to me.

59 minutes ago, No i deer said:

Can you prove it pops 😁

yes I can but thanks for asking 😉

Short and sweet:  No and no

Don't wear your barrel out scrubbing it with a bronze brush! 😉   Over cleaning is at best a waste of time and money, at worst damaging.  Watch knocking the muzzle crown with the steel rod.  I clean at the end of a session whether that's 25 rounds or 100 rounds.  Cleaning in-between strings at the range is  - well I'll keep my opinion to myself...

Put the phosphor bronze brush aside for when it's really needed and get some nylon brushes (Pro-shot are good).  Do let the solvent have a good soak so it does the work rather than your scrubbing.  I don't think there's any need to clean with copper remover every time.  By the way, copper solvent will attack your phosphor bronze brush and brass jag giving you the impression there's copper.  Pro-shot do an aluminium jag and non-bronze bodied nylon brush.   I like cut patches but they're no better than good old 4x2, just convenient as I keep a jar with cut patches soaking in solvent so it's a simple matter to fish one out and apply.

I find Patch-Out and Tactical Advantage to be excellent but I reckon most fouling solvents are pretty much of a muchness (except in £££)

Agree with a dry patch down the bore before shooting, standard Army practice to remove any residual oil.  Also helps prove there's nowt stuck up there.

49 minutes ago, Brillo said:

I shoot several 3-round groups, going up in 0.2 grain intervals, starting with one that give pMax of 56,000 psi, up to maximum pressure predicted by Quickload.

Before I hear a lot if sucking of breath and “ tut, tut you can’t trust Quickload,” let me confirm that I have successfully tweeted the parameters of all the powders I’ve used, for barrel twists from 1:8 to 1:12 based on observations and measurements over a lot of rounds shot, and I mean a lot.

Using my calculations and Optimum Barrel Times I can generally get to a node quite quickly and I’ve found, again through experience, that 56,000 psi is a known good starting point.

Just by way of experiment I tried ladder testing but the POIs are too close at 200 yards to give good results (200 yds is my home range max distance).

Pretty much what I do.  I use Quickload too, saves some time and money.  I do 0.5gn steps for .338 as it's around +90gn!

Problem with grouping at greater distances than 200 is wind effects  - muzzle jump and windage (yes, I know muzzle jump happens near to the muzzle!) .  200yds does give a better result for me when developing both .308 and .338 - the grouping performance seems to carry-over to long ranges better than 100yds.

11 minutes ago, The Gun Pimp said:

One-third MOA at 1000 yards!  Good luck with that - this year, in the UKBRA 1000 yd Championship, I would estimate that around 700 5-shot groups were shot - no one got a 1/3 MOA group!  Please bring your rifle along to one of our shoots and clean-up!

😂😉

He did say he was "looking for ..it"  not achieving it!    I'm looking for 1/2 moa at a mile but so far......

On 2/23/2018 at 8:46 PM, hunter686 said:

......... Apart from to chase the lands. I'm looking for to 1/3 MOA out that gun to 1000 yards 

thereby reducing the starting pressure in your round so invalidating the whole procedure?