Popsbengo

10 minutes ago, Kipper said:

I approached a while back and was told I had to attend the Longtown range 3 times before I could use Eskdalemuir.. I live 3hrs away so simply would cost me approx £500 and 21hrs off driving before I even set foot at Eskdalemuir

Are you a current member of a target club?  If so you could book Eskdalemuir as a club day - if you can get sufficient persons to split the cost.

If you join ODRC you'll have to do probation irrespective of skill & experience (so I'm told on this forum)

no need for a 50cal.  .338LM with 300gn Lapua Scenar or 285 ELD-M Hornday will be plenty accurate beyond 1 mile.  My pal was doing well at 1mile with 6.5CM even given the extreme elevation required (plumb bob and protractor time)

On 1/5/2020 at 7:13 PM, Adamdavi3s said:

All,

Hypothetical at the moment but we’re potentially buying somewhere where I can safely squeeze 100yards in
 

My ticket is for target “at ranges suitable for the Calibre and with adequate financial cover” or something along those lines. Nothing about home office approved ranges etc as I think there used to be? 
 

Ideally I’d like to not trouble with adding vermin etc to the ticket, so I’m talking purely target here 

Does that mean with my BASC liability cover, I can shoot on my own land? 

ignoring all other factors like noise for neighbours etc as I’d likely only be shooting 22sub anyway, possibly with the odd load dev on the .223/6.5/300wm

 

Obviously I’ll be talking to the FEO (I’m just renewing before the move) but wondered what experience other people had? 

A "suitable range for target shooting" is not a farm field.  The range must be fit for purpose (ie the calibres that are intended for use), safe and insured.  How that's done is a right can of worms these days and not easy.  I suggest you discuss with your FEO.  

You may have more luck if you get permission to shoot over the land - that will require the FEO to inspect and authorise I believe.  I can't see how you will get permission for a 300WM though!

6 minutes ago, One on top of two said:

And next year there be back on 6.5 

damn good job there isn't a 6.25 or we'd be even more conflicted  😁

Unless you have some overseas credentials to use and they are acceptable on an ongoing 'open' basis, you need to join a target shooting club or the NRA (or both) to access ranges.  A Safe Shooters Certification Card (SCC)  is a must for any MoD range or Bisley.  You will get one of these from your club when they confirm you have sufficient skill and knowledge.  Not many ranges have electronic targets - you've identified the two most obvious (and best) ones.

Bisley is ace.  I recommend joining the NRA so you can book as an individual.

+1 for Wipe Out

3 hours ago, Ralpharama said:

I do not profess to have any expert knowledge of who's to blame, but who ever is mismanaging tax payers assets should be called to account. 

My suggestion that maybe it should be the NRA, is that they are paid by all the clubs and was under the impression that one of their purposes was to speak on behalf of the clubs that are members of their association. Their voice doesn't seem to be as powerful as their namesakes across the pond, not that I believe a rifle association with that level of power is desirable 🤣

I do sympathise Ralph but I'm not convinced we can get anywhere claiming we own the assets therefore we have some right to access.  The ranges are only there because the MoD require them for training.  Allowing civi clubs to use them is very much a minuscule matter.  I think the NRA does meet and campaign for access but they have no real power.

Just consider the tiny revenue (a very rough guess: about £30k pa for Kingsbury if used by three clubs for 40 weeks in the year).  That's not pure profit as Landmarc need to pay wages and overhead etc.  Peanuts in the grand scheme of things so not really going to grab the attention of the powers that be.

agree with Big Al.   Read, view Youboob,  think about it, plan it,  get the right materials and read the data sheets.  

1 hour ago, Ralpharama said:

I'm already a member of ODRC, it's Frome & District Pistol Club I want to join to get more opportunities to shoot.

All the clubs I have ever spoken to suggest that they are legally bound to have a probationary period for all new members, even those who are members of other clubs. I have to say that it sounds strange, but then again the rules surrounding FACs are pretty odd at the best of times. From a clubs perspective I guess it makes sense to ensure that a joining member is going to fit in and not upset other members.

 

You are correct regarding "new members" that are novices.  The Club Committee can legally waive probation in "exceptional circumstances" such as a person who is a full member of another club or otherwise skilled with firearms.  Holding a SCC helps.  The HO Regs are straightforward and readily available on the .gov website.  Clubs may have their own policy forcing probation on all members and that can avoid issues later.  My club may accept someone as a direct full member but only if a 'trusted person' within our club can firmly vouch for the suitability and character of the applicant.  As Brillo hints at, skill is not the only issue making someone "suitable".

I think my Magnetospeed is a "Sporter" model and it's not suitable to use with any barrel or attachment over 25mm diameter.  It's a mechanical limitation I think but it may also mean the sensors are too far from the exiting bullet for proper triggering.

1 hour ago, Ralpharama said:

Offa's Dyke ............. I am in the process of applying to join them, but despite being a member of two other clubs and holder of a safe shooters card I will still most likely have to do a 6 month probation. 

Which is an unnecessary imposition on skilled shooters as discussed on another thread.  An ODRC rule that has now't to do with Home Office regs compliance.

VarmLR hits the bullseye.  For anyone volunteering to help run a club I would respectfully remind them that  members "own" the club they subscribe to, they deserve to be treated as valued colleagues not awkward pains in the bum  Being blunt is ok if it's warranted but down right rudeness should never be acceptable should it?

1 hour ago, Gluv said:

Oh no I won't , it's been cancelled! 🙁

Gluv 🇬🇧

Buggr 😁  I'll be shooting on Sunday for sure!

1 hour ago, Trigger73 said:

It took a few emails to one of the guys that deals with membership for any reply and when it eventually turned up it was very abrupt which put me on my back foot, a couple of other members I know have also stated that this chap can be a bit abrupt and standoffish? 

 

Don't take it personally! SW is not typical of shooting club organisers - we're all volunteers and the pressure put on us can be a right pain in the butt however most people I've had dealings with generally fall over backwards to be helpful.

37 minutes ago, Brillo said:

Thanks Pops. I know that. Who’s controlling what is a matter of semantics. My point is the loss of revenue when shoots are cancelled or, going back to my other point, when clubs decide to use other shooing locations. 

Clearly the DIO don’t know how to operate a superb business asset.

I don't agree it's "a matter of semantics" and SMLE puts his finger on the issue nicely.  But I do agree that the whole shower could make better business use of, what is ultimately publicly owned property.

The pipe-dream would be to have civilian club ownership of Kingsbury and then hire out time to MoD as required !  

28 minutes ago, Brillo said:

 

I know that Pops, but it’s still loss of revenue and it’s Landmarc controlling it.

No, it isn't.  The JSP907's (booking forms) are put to the DIO Training Manager (Maj. Jim Salisbury at Swynnerton) and he makes the decision regarding who gets allocated what and where.  Landmarc follow simple contract rules and operate to Range Standing Orders (again, written by DIO).  

Landmarc are the wrong target guys.

1 hour ago, Ralpharama said:

I think it is about time the NRA called Landmarc to account. These people are supposed to be employed by the tax payers to manage the publicly owned infrastructure. I do not feel that they are fulfilling their remit.

What has it to do with NRA?  It's the MOD that ultimately controls access via DIO.  Landmarc are just a facilities contractor - they do as they're told to.

6 minutes ago, Brillo said:

The cost of Kingsbury isn’t cheap. In fact my club is considering booking Bisley instead. This is a shame because I like Kingsbury. But it could be the thin end if the wedge and Landmarc will lose a considerable amount of revenue .

It's not Landmarc's revenue - it's Defence Infrastructure Organisation (DIO), a Governmental agency.

I think ODRC maybe over-reacting to unfamiliar territory: ie new committee people with next to no experience perhaps?

ODRC dropped the ball big-time last year by failing to renew their HO Approval and then failed to adequately communicate to the wider membership

I do hope they get their act together for the sake of the membership - a once great club under the old guard

1 hour ago, VarmLR said:

Sadly, this is becoming all too common place with many clubs who are tied to using MOD ranges which is why I've not bothered to renew one of my memberships this year....far too many instances of last minute cancellations which just seems unprofessional, incompetent or deliberate on the part of Landmarc and with the attitude of some military range officers that clearly they'd rather civvies weren't there at all.  It cost a lot of us a lot of money and wasted time last year and frankly, it wasn't worth the wasted time, money or effort to bother continuing with MOD ranges this coming year for me personally.  For those that will continue, I do hope that the situation improves for you this coming year over the shambles that it has been.

Couldn't agree more.  I've let my membership of ODRC go as I have a 300/500yd alternative and I shoot long range at Eskdalemuir.  I enjoyed Kingsbury but the increased buggeration isn't worth the effort and I don't go to other ODRC booked ranges.

I used to book military ranges for a club, dealt with Swynnerton  - with the exception of the admin (Deb & Marg) the whole shower seem dedicated to being a pain in the butt

1 hour ago, JamesR said:

I’ve been messaging Simon and it’s seems i can’t attend A range and observe as I wouldn’t be aloud on the range as I’m not a member. 
 

im guessing this is a common problem for someone new to long range shooting. 
 

I think I’m going to have to try elsewhere which is disappointing. 

There's other good clubs out there.  Pity you're outside of our catchment (Cheshire/Staffs/Derby/Shropshire)

1 hour ago, VarmLR said:

AFAIK even existing members who lapse membership now with ORDC have a mandatory obligation of going through a formal probationary period with them before allowing to become a full member, apparently due to new Home Office requirements (despite previously being full members which makes no sense at all....absolutely none!).  They're (HO) making things harder for everyone.  I wasn't aware that you needed the signature of an existing member but from my other memberships it's pretty standard practice with many clubs now otherwise anyone (with or without) a FAC could join who are not a known quantity, so many clubs are tightening up security to lower any potential risks associated with people unknown to their members joining.  You can either find someone who is a member and get to know them, but the circumstances and length of time known to them would probably be looked into as a common sense check.  It may seem unfair but I can see why some clubs are leaning this way.  Following Catch-22's advice might help you out...speak with Simon first though to make sure you would be welcome to just show up otherwise you may find you've had a wasted trip.  

There is no mandatory requirement to go through probation if already qualified.  HO Guidance 2016 is clear, it's up to the Committee to decide if, in exceptional circumstances, probation is to be waived.  I speak from a position of knowledge.  We have waived through five persons in the last few months (thanks to a club that's de-affiliated from NRA - cheers guys!).

Quote from HO Guidance 1/12/2016:  

Certainly ensuring suitability to be a member is a requirement - it's been so for years.  There are no HO changes to guidance, which has been the same since 1st Aug 2016 update.  If a person applying is not personally vouched for by current members then we require references to be given (not family).

ODRC seem to have some strange views recently.

1 hour ago, BlueBoy69 said:

After getting a wet tumbler and thinking I can't be assed with trying to get hold of 'Lemishine', I just made up an analogue of it.

1/4 teaspoon of citric acid

1/4 teaspoon of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda)

1/4 teaspoon of washing up liquid

These are added to the warm water and cases in each drum of the wet tumbler.

doesn't the sodium bicarb just react with the citric acid ?  I just put a level teaspoon in my ultrasonic cleaner (about 2ltr) with some detergent and the cases come out sparkly clean.  Rinse in plenty of cold water and dry. 

To the OP;  rose gold implies a removal of zinc from the brass surface leaving a microscopic copper sheen.  From what you describe I wouldn't worry, it's only a surface effect.

24 minutes ago, meles meles said:

Dear Popsbengo,

Pertaining to muzzle wear,  we wrote 'should it occur', not that it would occur. Muzzle wear is far less likely to occur than throat wear,  accidental damage and corrosion being far more common but, as lapua says, it usually has a far greater effect. Most of the damage we have seen at the muzzle of a firearm tends to arise from botched attempts to fit or remove a moderator or muzzle brake (or bayonet), or poor cleaning  - often due to a moderator being left in place and an accumulation of hygroscopic combustion products then giving rise to corrosion*. 

Yours, 

Professor Badger

 

* We aren't a corrosion scientist or a tribologist either, but we do hang out with them occasionally... 

a-ha,  must pay more attention in future

Dear Dr. Badger,

Why is "wear and erosion at the muzzle" far worse?  Assuming one is careful in cleaning practice and not plonking the muzzle in the mud how does the muzzle wear faster?

I assume you will be eating Xmas worms while we bald apes will be enjoying turkey/duck/goose/ham etc.  Tough life for you critters what with the cough and all.