Catch-22

As suspected, N160 isn’t generating enough oomph with the lighter 139g bullet compared to the slightly faster burning RS62. I bet if you ran the numbers again using a 142SMK or 147g with N160 and RS62, you’ll probably find the N160 produces better velocity for the charge.

Stock is important and believe most of the good chassis systems out there work well. Personally though, I focus more on having as thick and ridged a barrel (no pun intended) as possible. I like contours like HV and thicker, especially at the shank as they will resist the whip effect better than a barrel with a thinner profile.

I think you’ll need to use bullets heavier than the 139g to maximise the potential of N160. I suspect you may not get significant velocity gains with that weight. But if going ultra heavy, I think you’ll start to reap the returns for such a slow burning powder. Going heavy will also mean your charge weight should be a little lower too, so should fit in the case. I don’t have any 6.5mm bullets heavier than the 123g Scenars, which have always been great with N140. I might need to pickup some 142SMK or 147g ELDM and N160, though I’m not liking the 147g prices - crazy imho!

Some cable ties if you’re in a pinch?

Very cool indeed. I wonder if it could translate to the 6.5x47? A 140gn behind N160. Undoubtedly it won’t get up near the Creedmoor’s velocity but may not be too far off? My only thought was the x47 case is just a smidge smaller and thus may not be able to stuff enough N160 in to fully realise the potential. I don’t use 160 in any of my other cartridges, so haven’t thought to use it. Maybe someone with the x47 and N160 could give it a try sometime?

There’s also Javelin range on Salisbury Plain. I think that’s 3000m

Nearly 3000fps with a 142SMK from a 26” barrel! That does sound awfully high. I know Viht data is very anaemic but that’s way off the chart. I guess a very long throat, thus seated well out of the case, may help.

Hi Geoff, Its really some piece of mind. I’m likely to go to auction and so before I shoot it, want to double check if it’s got excessive headspace or not. Will allow me to decide if it’s ok, requires a rebarrel or maybe just a different bolt head. I also figured the gauges would help me choose the right brand of brass to use, as different brands come with different rim thicknesses.

I see a Lee Enfield No.4 in my future, so bought some headspace gauges from Tectal.AT last week. Came this morning. https://www.tectal.at/en/lee-enfield.303-british/25/headspace-gauge-set.303-british?c=28 Box comes with Go, No-Go and Field gauges. Gauges come coated in oil to protect the steel. Very nicely made on CNC machines to original military spec, not SAAMI. Has anyone else used these before?

For a factory gun, in addition to the Tikka’s, I’d also consider looking at the Sabatti STR. Several club members I’ve shot with have them and I’ve always been amazed at the accuracy and consistency. Supposedly after a short break in (100 rounds or so) the bolt really smooths out and the trigger is good. Takes AICS Mags too.

I too immediately wondered it’s going to rinse the barrel, being another N5xx powder. However, looking at the data sheets it’s energy is significantly lower than all the other N5xx series of powders at only 3700kjoules. The really bad N5xx powders are up around 4000kjoules (same as Varget..interesting for a single base powder). It might be that this new N555 is cooler burning, thus better for barrels, but then I’m confused why it’s considered ‘high-energy’. Ok it’s impregnated with Nitroglycerin, but really the whole point of the ‘high energy’ powders is to provide more oomph, no? With N555 seemingly providing the same kind of oomph as the single based N1xx series of powders...what’s the point of it?

Personally, better actions out there for the money. Doesn’t have an integral picatinny rail nor recoil lug. Both are pinned. Actions that have these elements machined as part of the action costs more (more complex machining) but makes the action both stronger/more rigid and won’t budge or come apart.

Buy a 2nd hand custom or AI. Plenty of them kicking around on the Sale section of the forum. If you choose wisely, you can get a gun for several £k cheaper than new, well within your budget. and most seem to only have around 400-600 rounds down the tube. You will be good for a long time.

Being pedantic, but you should measure the edge of the widest part of the group and subtract the bullet diameter. By the looks of it, the edge from top to bottom is wider than the side to side edges of the group. Still looks to be under 0.5”, nice for a 3 round group. Try to find a group that shows little vertical as that’s what counts at distance. Don’t worry about horizontal because that’s the wind. Vertical is where it’s at. 👍

To the OP Many powders offered by Hodgdon, aren’t REACH compliant and aren’t available in the UK any more. It’s not worth working up loads if you see any on the gun shop shelf because you won’t get any more and you’ll need to start load development all over a again. Thr advice you’ve had about a decent reloading book to help you understand the basic fundamentals of reloading, particularly the dangers associated with cocking it up (which is easy to do), is a great first start. Beyond that, I’d really be looking for load recipes for .223 with 69g, 75g and 77g loads. I wouldn’t worry too much of you don’t see a recipe for the 75g ELDM exclusively, find one for any 75g (focus on the HPBT, not soft-point hunting bullets) and use that as a basis. Start at least 15% lower than their max charge (I normally start around the middle charge) and work up safely in 0.2g or 0.3g increments. The .223 case is small, and little changes can make a big difference when getting near max. Focus on recipes that use Vihtavuori or Reload Swiss (RS) powders as they’re the most commonly available, and generally cheaper, than IMR or Hodgdon alternatives. You can get Hodgdon CFE-223 powder here but I think it’s expensive. But up to you. The Viht and RS websites have good load data. I find they’re a little anaemic but they’re good and safe to get you started.

Personally I wouldn’t JB paste it. Sure it’s firecracked but using the polishing compound will only widen your bore diameter (albeit minutely), which will alter the bullet to bore pressure seal created. Just why bother to worry? The gun still shoots fine. And you know the barrel is a consumable part that will eventually have to be replaced. Why spend time ruining what’s left of the throat, when you could focus energies on other more important things? Be safe in the knowledge that you can pick the gun up again after all this COVID19 rubbish and still shoot small groups.

Yes I would think so...if you really need to provide the tension to the spigot. I’ve not adjusted the torx bolt but I assume that tightening/loosening changes the depth of the underside base plate which applies tension to the spigot to adjust how much cant the spigot allows. Looking at your original pics, it seems that you already have a blind hole drilled for the torx bolt...they’ve obviously just not gone all the way through the top of the bridge given your model was the 6 o clock position. But most of that work has been done for you already...just go through the bridge, add a slighter larger diameter at the top to countersink the bolt head...assuming you wish to add tension to the spigot.

I’ve a Fortmeier that mounts in the 12 o clock position. Attached photos of mine show that you’re missing the large torx bolt and some sort of base plate under the bridge. I don’t have the tightening spigot that sticks out the bottom. I think the torx bolt will eliminate that. And tbh, I don’t use the QD function of the picatinny spigot from bridge. I leave it all together and simply use the pod lock handle to remove the picatinny clamp (and entire bipod) from the rail on top of my gun’s fore end. Personally I love the ski feet. I place them on the end of my shooting mat and the gun simply slides back into my shoulder, much like what happens with a Seb JoyPod on the JoyPad, even when shooting the big .338NM. I have no need to preload the bipod. I get zero hop/bounce and have very little vertical at 1000m, though my barrel is chunky and weighs a tonne...so that probably helps.

If it’s still shooting...then don’t worry about it! Why worry about something that isn’t broken! Only give it a concern when accuracy isn’t there anymore. What powder are you using btw? Also, not sure if it’s true or not, but have read somewhere that PacNor barrels can be a bit soft.

Being a Hodgdon product, it’s likely to cost near £50lb in the UK. 💰 Umm..I’ll stick with Viht & RS

Yes the KVB-223m is a good primer. But there are many others too. As VarmLR notes, Laurie Holland has done some Stirling primer tests and makes some brilliant recommendations. My loads are hot, in that they are over book max. But again they exhibit zero pressure signs in my rifle - no cratering, flattening of primers, no sticky bolt, no ejector marks, no hard extraction and no real growth of the web. F/L sizing each time is easy...no issues. I wouldn’t expect you to get anywhere near that velocity in a 22” tube. Possibly around 2750fps I’d think. But I have no doubt you’ll find a very accurate node very quickly. I’ve found the 6.5x47 to be one of the most easy to tune and forgiving calibre’s out there! Yes coating does mean I need to go around 1 full grain higher than I coated bullets to obtain the same velocity. Coating the barrel, I use a 95% mix of 99% Isopropyl Alcohol to 5% mix of HbN. It’s a slurry mix that’s the consistency of whole milk. I dip a patch on a cleaning rod in the slurry and coat the bore twice. Leave the alcohol to evaporate (30mins) before shooting. I do this before each shoot. After each shoot, I only use a carbon remover. On average, I shoot between 100 and 200rounds a session. I like to clean the carbon out after each shoot due to the possibility of corrosion. I don’t really worry about copper. My 1st cold bore shot is essentially on top of each subsequent shot. My most recent shoot was Warminster. With my big .338 Norma Mag (also using HbN coated bullets, bore and same cleaning regime), I put all three bullets into the size of a 20p during my HME test at 200yds, with no prior sighters. For me, I believe coating works well. And I’m hoping the throats of all my barrels will last just a bit longer due to the ceramic coating. Time will tell.

Yeah, I think this is a real accuracy node. I remember reading an excellent article by Zak Smith (one of the early founders of practical precision shooting comps) who had his AI-AW chambered in a 25” barrel in the then very new 6.5x47. He turned in many good loads with various bullets but the pick of the lot was a 123gn Scenar at around 2930fps. So it would seem the 2920-2950fps harmonic node is just about the sweet spot for 123gn class bullets in a 6.5x47...regardless of powder and primer used.

Hi n8ess, I still shoot the same load but now in a different 6.5x47. In my previous rifle (Tikka with 24” Bergara barrel) the load I used was; 123gn Scenar, 38.4gn N140, Murom KVB-223m primer. Gave around 2930fps. No pressure signs (in my rifle) until I hit 38.7gn. My current rifle (custom Defiance tubegun with 26” Bartlein barrel) and the load I now use; 123gn Scenar, 38.8gn N140**, Murom KVB-223m primer. Gives 2925fps. Zero pressure at all. I could & have tried a higher charge, but the accuracy wasn’t there NOTE** I coat my bullets and barrel in this rifle with HbN, so it permits me to go at least a full grain more than bare bullets. Do not use either load without working up fully. I’m aware that they’re both way over book max but I worked up safely and know they’re safe for me.

Nice - worth a go. Initially I didn’t think it would be the primer, especially as the CCI450 is probably used by most people in the 6.5x47. But for whatever reason, the KVB-223m was better. After seeing that, I went and bought around 15,000 of the buggers!

I remember a previous rifle I had in 6.5x47. I was doing everything right and the rifle shot well to 600m, but I was bugged by ES that was in the 50s and 60s. A simple switch in primers, from CCI450 to Murom KVB-223m, with no other changes at all instantly reduced my ES to around 9fps. Surprisingly group size didn’t change at all, around 0.35MOA at 100m and still low vertical at 600m. Personally I don’t change bullet or powder, but will change primer and seating depth to really tune a load from Ho-Hum to Yum-Yum. 😆