Bisley range Fee’s

[martin_b]

>The electronic targets kept breaking. It was just me and the tech guys who spent a great deal of my session rebooting servers, tablets etc It was pretty frustrating to say the least.

Thats a shame I was going to take a day off next week for a couple of hours at 1000Y.  Did they get sorted or were you offered a refund?

[Popsbengo]

My apologies to Ralph re scope settings; it would seem that S&B use an odd cm marking system in 1/4 cm @ 100m clicks on some models of scope.

The moa scope in the same spec has ±14moa which is ~4mils each way

So if there's 16 x 0.25 clicks that's 4 mils  ???

I think I would do a test pattern at 100m and get my tape measure out!

[Ralpharama]

2 hours ago, martin_b said:

>The electronic targets kept breaking. It was just me and the tech guys who spent a great deal of my session rebooting servers, tablets etc It was pretty frustrating to say the least.

Thats a shame I was going to take a day off next week for a couple of hours at 1000Y.  Did they get sorted or were you offered a refund?

The techies suggested that I should e-mail the range orifice, but I haven't as yet. I would be inclined to call them before taking any time off work 😐

[Ralpharama]

45 minutes ago, Popsbengo said:

My apologies to Ralph re scope settings; it would seem that S&B use an odd cm marking system in 1/4 cm @ 100m clicks on some models of scope.

The moa scope in the same spec has ±14moa which is ~4mils each way

So if there's 16 x 0.25 clicks that's 4 mils  ???

I think I would do a test pattern at 100m and get my tape measure out!

It doesn't take massive amounts of wind to leave me needing to aim off and rely on the reticle markings.... Still it's not like it was expensive or anything ... It's German so it must be perfect 🙄 I've still not saved enough pennies to be able to quantify the wind at the shooting point, but I think it was forecast to be gusting 25+ mph

[Popsbengo]

2 minutes ago, Ralpharama said:

It doesn't take massive amounts of wind to leave me needing to aim off and rely on the reticle markings.... Still it's not like it was expensive or anything ... It's German so it must be perfect 🙄 I've still not saved enough pennies to be able to quantify the wind at the shooting point, but I think it was forecast to be gusting 25+ mph

It seems they've sacrificed range for fine adjustment on your model.

[Catch-22]

On 11/10/2022 at 2:43 PM, Popsbengo said:

That's 16moa in 1/4 moa clicks.   What were you shooting?  155 over 1000 would be a challenge with only 15mph full wind

 

According to Schmidts website, it’s actually 16cm in 1/4cm clicks:

https://www.schmidtundbender.de/en/products/police-military-forces/12-50x56-pm-iip.html

Therefore it sounds to me there’s something not right. To have 16mil windage but be running out?!.

 

[Popsbengo]

25 minutes ago, Catch-22 said:

According to Schmidts website, it’s actually 16cm in 1/4cm clicks:

https://www.schmidtundbender.de/en/products/police-military-forces/12-50x56-pm-iip.html

Therefore it sounds to me there’s something not right. To have 16mil windage but be running out?!.

 

I know, this seems mad but 16cm at 100m is 1.6 mils isn't it ?   100m divided by 1000 is 10cm which is 1 mil.  My scope is 1/10mil clicks which is 1cm per click at 100m

[Ralpharama]

10 minutes ago, Popsbengo said:

I know, this seems mad but 16cm at 100m is 1.6 mils isn't it ?   100m divided by 1000 is 10cm which is 1 mil.  My scope is 1/10mil clicks which is 1cm per click at 100m

This is correct. which is why I so often run out of windage adjustment 😝

[Roy W]

Surely 1.6Mils is

16cm - 100

32cm - 200

48cm - 300

64cm - 400

80cm- 500

96cm - 600

112cm - 700

128cm - 800

144cm - 900

160cm - 1000

It must be pretty windy where you are?

 

[gazzarM1]

What I don’t get is that the specs say 15 moa of windage  yet that equates to approx 4.4 mils?

[Richiew]

StrelokPro gives a 308 ,175 gtbullet 1.6 mils or your full adjusted windage. , for a side wind  of about 9 mph at a thousand yards. Sandb blurb says it’s ideal for benchrest or F-class use . 
Standard windage is 6 mils or 60 cm at 100 m on my ultrashort/ high power scopes. 
Defo need to aim off .

 Good luck 

[Richiew]

Click value	Elevation	Windage	Direction	Elevation	Windage
¼ cm	0-175 cm	± 16 cm	cw	MT	ST
⅛ MOA – (On request)	0-75 MOA	± 14 MOA	cw	MT	DT
⅛ MOA – (On request)	0-75 MOA	± 14 MOA	ccw	MT	DT
¼ MOA – (On request)	0-65 MOA	± 16 MOA	cw	DT	ST
¼ MOA – (On request)	0-65 MOA	± 16 MOA	ccw	DT	ST

cw

take it you’ve got the top model on the table ? 

[Re-Pete]

On the subject of dud electronics, we lost 45mins at the start of our two hours on Century yesterday at 300yds.......I enquired about a refund in the Range Office, and was told to email them with details of the problem. I've had part refunds before, but no offer of compensation for the irritating waste of ammo while you try to decide if it's you or the system that's fallen over.

We had to call the techies out, and it transpired that the Shotmarker sensors had been installed back to front. Once sorted, they were spot on.

I can't understand what is so difficult about testing the system BEFORE the paying punters arrive.......

Pete

[Catch-22]

On 11/11/2022 at 7:56 AM, Ralpharama said:

Left and right.  The scope has loads of elevation and I didn’t even run out when I shot at 1400yards. Seems poor design for such an expensive scope

Well not really. Sadly you’ve chosen a model S&B say was designed for Benchrest & FClass. For this model they’ve obviously favoured both high elevation AND very fine windage adjustments which supports these disciplines.

The other PMIIs have more windage but in coarser adjustments because they suit military applications better and not so much benchrest / f class. My 5-25x56 PMII is as such, which is why I specifically chose a model with the HCMR2 reticle, which incorporates finer 0.2mil windage in the reticle, instead of the older PLF4 design with coarser 0.5mil wind in the reticle.

Ultimately, it comes down to selecting the right equipment for the job.

But I do still think you should still have more than enough mechanical windage in your model for you to survive a mini hurricane. I often only require a max of 1.3Mil at 1000m when shooting in a strong wind with a 6.5x47L. You should be fine. I recon there’s something not quite right with the rail (not aligned or concentric to bore) or possibly the rings (not concentric to the rail/bore) or even something mechanical in the scope or reticle shift…though I’d bet these last two points to be less likely. 

Personally I’d want to get rail & ring alignment and scope checked. 👍

[Catch-22]

On 11/11/2022 at 7:56 AM, Ralpharama said:

Left and right.  The scope has loads of elevation and I didn’t even run out when I shot at 1400yards. Seems poor design for such an expensive scope

Well not really. It seems you’ve chosen a model S&B say was designed for Benchrest & FClass. For this model they’ve obviously favoured both high elevation AND very fine windage adjustments which supports these disciplines.

The other PMIIs have more windage but in coarser adjustments because they suit military applications better and not so much benchrest / f class. My 5-25x56 PMII is as such, which is why I specifically chose a model with the HCMR2 reticle, which incorporates finer 0.2mil windage in the reticle, instead of the older PLF4 design with coarser 0.5mil wind in the reticle.

Ultimately, it comes down to choosing the right scope with the features for the style/type of shooting you’re doing.

But I do still think you should still have more than enough mechanical windage in your model for you to survive a mini hurricane. I often only require a max of 1.3Mil windage when shooting in a strong wind with a 6.5x47L in a strong wind. You should be fine. I recon there’s something not quite right with the rail (not aligned or concentric to bore) or possibly the rings (not concentric to the rail/bore) or even something mechanical in the scope or reticle shift…though I’d bet these last two points to be less likely. 

Personally I’d want to get rail & ring alignment and scope checked. 👍