replicating the 22 hornet with .223

[tench]

Has anyone tried replicating a .22 hornet with their .223.

 

I noticed somewhere that 13g of fast burn powder will get a 40g vmax too about 3000fps from a .223 cartridge.

 

Interested to know if anyone has tried it. 

 

 

 

[Miseryguts]

Hi, I assume that by 13g you mean grains(gr) not grams(g)?

Getting off the pedants pedastle and assuming I have read your post correctly, Modern Reloading gives velocities around to 2500 to 2800 for the maximum recommended loads in 22 hornet.

In 223,  28gr of H335 would push a 40gr  bullet to  3800 fps, again according to Modern Reloading.

Personally, I use 25.8gr of H335 under a 53gr Vmax for 3250 fps, which does everything I need from my 223

M

 

[Dellboy]

Would it not be easier to buy a 22 Hornet   i think ive got one at the back of the safe ...

[Moorlander]

1 hour ago, Dellboy said:

Would it not be easier to buy a 22 Hornet   i think ive got one at the back of the safe ...

[BlueBoy69]

An almost full case of Vihtavuori N32C Tin Star with a Hornady 40 gr V-Max will give you velocities near or above the max the Hornet can attain with the same bullet.

[Barrelsniffer]

16 hours ago, Dellboy said:

Would it not be easier to buy a 22 Hornet   i think ive got one at the back of the safe ...

Get out and use it, i did same for few yrs, forgot what a great short range cal it is.

[chaz]

3 hours ago, Barrelsniffer said:

Get out and use it, i did same for few yrs, forgot what a great short range cal it is.

Me too.... What sort of realistic range and speed are we looking at. It's been a while....

[Andrew]

LOVEX makes a powder marketed in the US as "Tactical Rifle" that allows very reduced charges in 223. The data says you can take a 55 grain as low as 2450 fps. They did not list a direct LOVEX designation with the powder (they do for most) but you might contact LOVEX and see what they can offer..~Andrew

[Barrelsniffer]

17 hours ago, chaz said:

Me too.... What sort of realistic range and speed are we looking at. It's been a while....

Ive never put mine through a chrono, but i use it for short range upto 200yds on foxes and rabbits, anything further go up in cals. i stopped using it for a few yrs until one day i decided to use it, great little round very underestimated, gets used often now.

[Elliott]

On 12/25/2019 at 10:36 AM, chaz said:

Me too.... What sort of realistic range and speed are we looking at. It's been a while....

I reckon foxes out to 200 yards and rabbits out to 300+ in decent weather if you can get a good load developed and you don't mind dialing.

Great little vermin basher with 40gr V-Max. I'm getting just over 3,000fps with mine using 12.6gr Lil Gun.

[tench]

On 12/25/2019 at 12:50 PM, Andrew said:

LOVEX makes a powder marketed in the US as "Tactical Rifle" that allows very reduced charges in 223. The data says you can take a 55 grain as low as 2450 fps. They did not list a direct LOVEX designation with the powder (they do for most) but you might contact LOVEX and see what they can offer..~Andrew

cheers will give it a look. I noticed alot of us shooters use blue dot to do it also. 

[tench]

On 12/24/2019 at 3:41 PM, BlueBoy69 said:

An almost full case of Vihtavuori N32C Tin Star with a Hornady 40 gr V-Max will give you velocities near or above the max the Hornet can attain with the same bullet.

have you tried it yourself?

[tench]

On 12/24/2019 at 2:02 PM, Dellboy said:

Would it not be easier to buy a 22 Hornet   i think ive got one at the back of the safe ...

it seems much easier to just buy some slow pistol powder from what i read than to to go to the trouble and expense of buying a new gun, scope, mounts and putting in a variation. 

[BlueBoy69]

15 hours ago, tench said:

have you tried it yourself? 

Not in the 223 Remington, as I don't own one, but I use it in my .22 PPC USA with H&N 55 grain copper-plated and plastic-coated bullets.

I don't use a full case as I'm not trying to emulate the .22 Hornet, I just made up a light accurate load for plinking that gives a bit more punch than the .22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire. This uses 6.5 grains of N32C for an MV of around 1,650 fps with the 55 grain H&N bullet. Going by QuickLOAD, 12 grains would give me around 2.340 fps. Personally, I'd not use this with the H&N bullet as the load is a pretty high-pressure one (48,000 PSI) and the bullet probably wouldn't like it. A proper jacketed bullet would be fine though.

You could also try Vihtavuori N110, as it's good for partial case fills and I've used it many cases for downloaded rounds. For the .223 with the H&N 55 grain bullet, they list 14-16 grains of N110. If you are going to be firing 40-45 grain Hornet bullets, you can go a bit higher, but this won't emulate the .22 Hornet, it will be far above it. If you do want to emulate it, then about 11.8 grains of N32C will get you around there according to QuickLOAD.

[tench]

31 minutes ago, BlueBoy69 said:

Not in the 223 Remington, as I don't own one, but I use it in my .22 PPC USA with H&N 55 grain copper-plated and plastic-coated bullets.

I don't use a full case as I'm not trying to emulate the .22 Hornet, I just made up a light accurate load for plinking that gives a bit more punch than the .22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire. This uses 6.5 grains of N32C for an MV of around 1,650 fps with the 55 grain H&N bullet. Going by QuickLOAD, 12 grains would give me around 2.340 fps. Personally, I'd not use this with the H&N bullet as the load is a pretty high-pressure one (48,000 PSI) and the bullet probably wouldn't like it. A proper jacketed bullet would be fine though.

You could also try Vihtavuori N110, as it's good for partial case fills and I've used it many cases for downloaded rounds. For the .223 with the H&N 55 grain bullet, they list 14-16 grains of N110. If you are going to be firing 40-45 grain Hornet bullets, you can go a bit higher, but this won't emulate the .22 Hornet, it will be far above it. If you do want to emulate it, then about 11.8 grains of N32C will get you around there according to QuickLOAD.

cheers for that info

I was going to try 12 g of blue dot but the vit alternatives seems cheaper to buy per pound. maybe because many Americans use the blue dot for reduced loads due to a famous article referencing blue dot and reduced load 223. 

I use ggg brass which is strong and slightly less case capacity. I estimate the pressure would be around 36,000 psi to emulate the hornet in the .223 using blue dot but do not have quickload.

The brass I am going to use is design to operate at 55-60kpsi. Did you have any issues with the case neck not sealing with the chamber on your .22ppc?

 

[Catch-22]

On 12/25/2019 at 12:50 PM, Andrew said:

LOVEX makes a powder marketed in the US as "Tactical Rifle" that allows very reduced charges in 223. The data says you can take a 55 grain as low as 2450 fps. They did not list a direct LOVEX designation with the powder (they do for most) but you might contact LOVEX and see what they can offer..~Andrew

The Lovex designation for ‘Tactical Rifle’ is D073-08. It’s a double based ball powder, similar to BLC(2) and H335.

Here’s a really useful US resource that shows the Lovex and US Shootersworld designations. Shootersworld did actual pressure testing with the Lovex powders, so they should be very accurate.
https://shootersworldpowder.com/wp-content/uploads/shooters-world-manual.pdf

Find the Tactical Rifle page (p.26) and you’ll find some reduced .223 loads. Starting load of 17.5gn with a 55gn FMJ bullet will give just 2500fps.

[Andrew]

Thanks. I have the manual. They just weren't specific as to the exact designation by LOVEX.

I have been loading several different LOVEX powders including the Tactical Rifle, Match Rifle, SW4350 and Long Rifle. The latter two in the Creedmoor. They recently expanded the 6.5 Grendel data for Match Rifle and I have attained Nirvana with a 120 Sierra Pro Hunter @ 2700 fps from my CZ. Half-sh MOA, a grain and a half under MAX. No pressure. Kills deer like a thunder-clap. Love the stuff. Bought 16 pounds of it. My girl friend uses it for her 168 grain Match loads in 308. I will be trying it with 175's. Useful stuff.~Andrew

[BlueBoy69]

5 minutes ago, Andrew said:

They just weren't specific as to the exact designation by LOVEX.

Hmmm, says it on Page 26 and it's on the picture of the propellant in its tub?

 

[Andrew]

So it does! I just read the narrative powder description where (usually) they mention the LOVEX designation if it has one. The burn rate chart has two numerical designations. Never even noticed it on the tub. LOVEX designation is really immaterial to me, personally, as I order it and look up data as whatever the Shooters World name is. Thanks though. Got my first dose of feeling foolish for the day! 😀~Andrew

[BlueBoy69]

3 minutes ago, Andrew said:

Thanks though. Got my first dose of feeling foolish for the day! 😀~Andrew

No problem Andrew.

I too read the text first and wondered where the Catch-22 was getting the info from? I then zoomed in on the image as spotted the designation and also noticed it mentioned in the later reloading data section.

It's worth having the Explosia's LOVEX designation as you can find more reloading data (link) and use QuickLOADs info if you are so inclined.

[Andrew]

I have the LOVEX  manual on line but have never had the need to look at it too closely. I was pretty excited to see the Shooter's World update a couple of months ago. The importer seems to be doing it's homework.~Andrew

[Catch-22]

Yeah I don’t really bother with the Explosia load data as it’s very mild. I remember reading somewhere that they don’t conduct full pressure testing. This is where Shooters World have been a huge asset because they’ve done the invaluable pressure testing - so it’s their data that I would trust/go by personally.

On the point about the Lovex designations, they’re also clearly named at the top of each page of the powder’s load data - just look at the coloured headers. Also written in the last paragraph of each powder’s description page (towards the beginning of that pdf).