20 cal action question

[maltbuck]

I have managed to get myself slightly confused in my quest to sort a 20 calibre repeater rifle!

My preferences would be 20 Tac, 20 Vartarg, or just a straight 204 ruger.

 

Now my understanding is the 20 Tac can be built on an off the shelf 223 action and floor plate / detachable mag. Similarly but not quite so convinced about the 204 Ruger?

 

But my real confusion is over the 20 Vartarg, this would seem to be a more specific situation as far as action choice is concerned, as well as getting it to feed / eject correctly, due to extractor variances on the bolt face and ramp considerations for the floor plate??

 

Typically this had probably been my favoured calibre choice as I already have a 223 Sako 75 Varmint, which I plan on keeping.

 

I note that Cooper rifles seem to favour single shot rifles when it comes to the Fireball derivatives!

 

Help will be very much appreciated!

 

ATB,

 

MB

[visiter1]

why not a 20 practical that shoud feed from a standard 223?

[Offroad Gary]

ive used a vartarg built on a sako 75 action (.223 size). That worked.

[maltbuck]

why not a 20 practical that shoud feed from a standard 223?

Possibly a misconception but the Vartarg and Tactical seem to have a reputation for " greater" accuracy with easier load work ups. Also as I have full intention of keeping my .223, the 20 practical is too close to to the .223 and want to prevent any possible confusions!!

 

The final choice will take the place of my 17HMR, so this is another reason for me " favouring" the Vartarg.

 

Many thanks,

 

MB

[baldie]

I have a 17 fireball remington sat in the safe. Its the only remington that will cycle the little round reliably. It has a double scalloped feed ramp, and the correct internal magazine and floor plate.

 

They need a little action, like Garys action 1 sako.

[Shuggy]

The CZ 527 will feed the fireball cases. There are quite a few cheap 527s in .222 out there that would make suitable donors for rebarelling. You can get the correctly sized fireball magazines from Brownells. A .20 Vartag sounds like a fun project.

[Big Al]

Possibly a misconception but the Vartarg and Tactical seem to have a reputation for " greater" accuracy with easier load work ups. Also as I have full intention of keeping my .223, the 20 practical is too close to to the .223 and want to prevent any possible confusions!!

 

The final choice will take the place of my 17HMR, so this is another reason for me " favouring" the Vartarg.

 

Many thanks,

 

MB

 

 

Yes, I would say that is correct.

 

Looking at a 20 Tac v 20 Prac case you couldn't tell the difference and either would be just as likely to get confused with a 223 case.

 

I have a 20Tac which is very accurate but I wouldn't hesitate to have a 20 Practical instead next time. I can't really see the point of the Vartarg, in real terms it will be no more accurate but will suffer from shorter legs whereas the 20Tac/Prac could be loaded to mimic a 20VT if needed. Add to that the hassle of getting/prepping and feeding the 20VT brass and it makes the 20 Practical look like a very sensible option, my next 20 will be a Practical.

[gunner]

 

 

Yes, I would say that is correct.

 

Looking at a 20 Tac v 20 Prac case you couldn't tell the difference and either would be just as likely to get confused with a 223 case.

 

I have a 20Tac which is very accurate but I wouldn't hesitate to have a 20 Practical instead next time. I can't really see the point of the Vartarg, in real terms it will be no more accurate but will suffer from shorter legs whereas the 20Tac/Prac could be loaded to mimic a 20VT if needed. Add to that the hassle of getting/prepping and feeding the 20VT brass and it makes the 20 Practical look like a very sensible option, my next 20 will be a Practical.

Al is spot on , it makes perfect sence to go 20 practical as u have 223 brass , you can use the 223 bullet seater for the practical ! You will however need a bushing die type-S Redding for sizing the 223 brass down to a 233 bushing from memory ! I have the bushings to borrow if you decided to go practical but ill need them back of course . I use a practical very similar to tactical , the reason i went practical is cause i had 223 bits n bobs everywhere below is a 50 bmg next to 223 ack then 20 practical x2

[Alycidon]

I have managed to get myself slightly confused in my quest to sort a 20 calibre repeater rifle!

My preferences would be 20 Tac, 20 Vartarg, or just a straight 204 ruger.

 

Now my understanding is the 20 Tac can be built on an off the shelf 223 action and floor plate / detachable mag. Similarly but not quite so convinced about the 204 Ruger?

 

But my real confusion is over the 20 Vartarg, this would seem to be a more specific situation as far as action choice is concerned, as well as getting it to feed / eject correctly, due to extractor variances on the bolt face and ramp considerations for the floor plate??

 

Typically this had probably been my favoured calibre choice as I already have a 223 Sako 75 Varmint, which I plan on keeping.

 

I note that Cooper rifles seem to favour single shot rifles when it comes to the Fireball derivatives!

 

Help will be very much appreciated!

 

ATB,

 

MB

 

As you are probably aware 20 Vartarg is built on a necked down 22 Fireball case. 204 is based on a 222 Rem Magnum case. So most 222/223 actions could be used as doners for the VT, not sure about the 204 but I suspect so.

 

Most Coopers are single shot, if you want best accuracy it is the way to go as there is less flexing of the action when fired. How often do you get the chance of a quick follow up shot with a centerfire ?, 1% of the time, maybe. If you are prepared to sacrifice a degree of accuracy then you can look toward mag feed but there is no real need for it in the field IMHO.

 

A

[MACKY]

I have a .20 VT that started out as a .17 fireball on a Remington 700 action.

No feed or ejection issues & the floor plate magazine holds 5 rounds.

Ive not had any accuracy problems as mentioned above.

This little rounds still amazes me what it can do.

John

[maltbuck]

Many thanks for the answers. If I go the Vartarg route it looks like very specific action model.

 

Out of interest,whilst realising it would be a single shot, anyone using a 20 ppc, and if you are, are you necking down 22ppc brass or going down the 220 Russian route?

 

Kind regards,

 

MB

[rsc1960]

I have 2 x20 tacs, both shoot better than me all day long.

 

action on the first one is a sako s/491 very compact and a very tight action

action on my NV rig is a tikka 595 can't ever complain about this action.

 

love the 20 tacs so much since Neil mc built me one many years ago, that was on a mini Mauser 10 x action again very compact, in fact I was thinking of asking if a 20 tac could be built into a bullpup style or on a AR format?

 

bob

[Alycidon]

Many thanks for the answers. If I go the Vartarg route it looks like very specific action model.

 

Out of interest,whilst realising it would be a single shot, anyone using a 20 ppc, and if you are, are you necking down 22ppc brass or going down the 220 Russian route?

 

Kind regards,

 

MB

Have a 6PPC and would recommend going with Lapua 220 Russian brass. Dont think there is a 22PPC brass as such, just the standard Lapua 220 Russian brass which is probably what you are driving at. Either way go Lapua.

 

A

[Scotch_egg]

I believe sako produced 22ppc brass in the past. This is no longer in production. The only route as alycidon has already stated is 220 Russia brass.

 

The 20ppc is a very efficient cartridge UKV. Member 20ppc uses a Bat actioned 17" 20ppc to great succes. It is very much a single shot round unless you are lucky enough to get your hands on a Sako 75 6ppc to rebarrel.

 

I use a .20 Tac with an 18" barrel and would always go for the larger case capacity and a shorter barrel. I wouldn't bother with a VarTarg.

 

I just don't use mine any more due to circumstances. Such a shame as it really is a pleasure to shoot.

[terryh]

Me Egg,

 

Must say that looks a real tidy rifle!

 

Another vote for the 20Tc (or Prac) Had a 20Tac Cooper many years ago what the 20's stated taking off. Pleasure to shoot and silly accurate for a semi-custom.

 

T

[Alycidon]

I believe sako produced 22ppc brass in the past. This is no longer in production. The only route as alycidon has already stated is 220 Russia brass.

 

The 20ppc is a very efficient cartridge UKV. Member 20ppc uses a Bat actioned 17" 20ppc to great succes. It is very much a single shot round unless you are lucky enough to get your hands on a Sako 75 6ppc to rebarrel.

 

I use a .20 Tac with an 18" barrel and would always go for the larger case capacity and a shorter barrel. I wouldn't bother with a VarTarg.

 

I just don't use mine any more due to circumstances. Such a shame as it really is a pleasure to shoot.

Sweet looking rifle.

 

Nice round that 20PPC is I would look more toward a 22PPC as it will be deer legal for Munties and CWD in England + Roe in Scotland ( from memory !!).

 

When my 6PPC gets to the end of its barrel life I will almost certainly re tube as a 22PPC as my deer stalking days are about over due to health reasons. Not a lot to choose between the two calibers ( 20PPC / 22 PPC) sub 300 yards but the 22 being deer legal is a plus. I do also have a very heavy semi benchrest 20BR for long reach stuff.

 

A

[BlueBoy69]

I believe sako produced 22ppc brass in the past. This is no longer in production. The only route as alycidon has already stated is 220 Russia brass.

 

The 20ppc is a very efficient cartridge UKV. Member 20ppc uses a Bat actioned 17" 20ppc to great succes. It is very much a single shot round unless you are lucky enough to get your hands on a Sako 75 6ppc to rebarrel.

 

I use a .20 Tac with an 18" barrel and would always go for the larger case capacity and a shorter barrel. I wouldn't bother with a VarTarg.

 

I just don't use mine any more due to circumstances. Such a shame as it really is a pleasure to shoot.

Some people still stock Sako cases. I did enquire with the main importer and Sako and they are still available if you ask, though it may take a bit of time. That or you could just buy Norma 22 PPC USA cases? I brought 200 x 22 PPC USA and 200 x 6 mm PPC USA Norma cases recently. I had no trouble at all getting them. You can go down the Lapua 220 Russian, or form cases from 7.62x39, but far easier just necking down 22 PPC USA cases.

[Scotch_egg]

Some people still sock Sako cases. I did enquire with the main importer and Sako and they are still available if you ask, though it may take a bit of time. That or you could just buy Norma 22 PPC USA cases? I brought 200 x 22 PPC USA and 200 x 6 mm PPC USA Norma cases recently. I had no trouble at all getting them. You can go down the Lapua 220 Russian, or form cases from 7.62x39, but far easier just necking down 22 PPC USA cases.

Well that's great news. My source got it wrong. You are clearly an advocate of the PPC.

 

If any one wants to make an offer on my rifle pm me.

[BlueBoy69]

Well that's great news. My source got it wrong. You are clearly an advocate of the PPC.

 

If any one wants to make an offer on my rifle pm me.

Double checking my emails on the subject today (they were sent from work) GMK (the importer) said Sako still lists both 22 and 6 mm PPC USA cases. They can be ordered from Sako, but the minimum quantity is one case, aka 500 cartridges, so not cheap. The person from GMK who replied was Bill Moore in their sales team.

 

My Norma cases were ordered from my local (to work) shop, GT Shooting in Coulsdon. As mentioned by the person at Norma (Kenneth Skoglund), you can also order them directly from RUAG UK.

 

http://www.ruag.co.uk/

http://www.gmk.co.uk/

http://gtshooting.wix.com/gt-shooting

[22/250 foxer]

The little annie actions feed the fireball nice also