6br-convince me please

[Offroad Gary]

Having just sold my foxing rifle (r93 .243) i need a replacement, i was going to have a semi custom .243 but have been offered a cooper m22 phoenix in 6br 8 twist and am quite keen. I like to shoot bullets about the 70gn mark, but will also enjoy 105 amax for some daytime forrays.

 

Any thoughts??

[Chris-NZ]

What's not to like?

An extremely efficient cartridge that is inherently accurate and doesn't kill barrels rapidly. Unless you plan to shoot at over 600yds in heavier wind, it should be ideal for your purposes

 

Chris-NZ

[6.5shooter]

If youre only foxing then its more than enough gun.

[Finman]

What's not to like, indeed excellent accuracy, handling bullet weights from 65 to 105 gn, giving it performance that beats 22-250 with the lighter bullets and at the same time giving enough energy with 87gn bullets to allow stalking, no recoil to speak off, easy to load for, extremely accurate and good to 600yds, hell, 1000yds if you're up to it . Get it, you know it makes sense

 

best wishes,

 

Finman

[furrybean]

What's not to like, indeed excellent accuracy, handling bullet weights from 65 to 105 gn, giving it performance that beats 22-250 with the lighter bullets and at the same time giving enough energy with 87gn bullets to allow stalking, no recoil to speak off, easy to load for, extremely accurate and good to 600yds, hell, 1000yds if you're up to it . Get it, you know it makes sense

 

best wishes,

 

Finman

 

Is it deer legal without going over max loads?

[Finman]

Mine makes 1767ftlbs with an 87gn Hornady BTHP over 31.8gn of Varget...It does better with 65gn VMax (1790ftlbs I think), but I wouldn't shoot a deer with it . All that out of a 25' Border barrel, 1:9 twist.

 

best wishes,

 

Finman

[Offroad Gary]

What sort of velocities are you guys getting with 70gn bullets? Not sure if barrel is 24 or 26"

 

Cheers

[gbal]

What's not to like, indeed excellent accuracy, handling bullet weights from 65 to 105 gn, giving it performance that beats 22-250 with the lighter bullets and at the same time giving enough energy with 87gn bullets to allow stalking, no recoil to speak off, easy to load for, extremely accurate and good to 600yds, hell, 1000yds if you're up to it . Get it, you know it makes sense

 

best wishes,

 

Finman[/quote

 

Agreed with one proviso-to get the 1000 performance a fast twist barrel is needed.,and the very best short range accuracy will be with a slow twist.As with many other cartridges (inc 243 and 223) This really means two rifles-or a pricey switch barrel.

No one rifle set up will be optimum for everything-but this is pretty generally true,not just for the splendid 6BR.

Gbal

[happyhunter]

Mine makes 1767ftlbs with an 87gn Hornady BTHP over 31.8gn of Varget...It does better with 65gn VMax (1790ftlbs I think), but I wouldn't shoot a deer with it . All that out of a 25' Border barrel, 1:9 twist.

 

best wishes,

 

Finman

Finman have you tried the 105 a-max through yours?

 

Gary I am having a 6br built on that t3 action I bought of you for the same purpose or even further range if the conditions allow, just a fun long range rifle. : )

[Finman]

Happyhunter,

 

never felt the need. I don't shoot target (well, in a competition sort of sense) with it, and I get what I want from it with the 87gn variety (BTHP, VMax, SP) from it. First round cold bore hits at bunnies at 480yds and head shot deer at 150yds is the norm for this rifle and that keeps me happy. And, in answer to gbal's post, my rifle will group at the 0.2s 65gn, 70gn, 75gn, and 87gn bullets, which is well within my demands from this rifle.

 

best wishes,

 

Finman

[gbal]

Happyhunter,

 

never felt the need. I don't shoot target (well, in a competition sort of sense) with it, and I get what I want from it with the 87gn variety (BTHP, VMax, SP) from it. First round cold bore hits at bunnies at 480yds and head shot deer at 150yds is the norm for this rifle and that keeps me happy. And, in answer to gbal's post, my rifle will group at the 0.2s 65gn, 70gn, 75gn, and 87gn bullets, which is well within my demands from this rifle.

 

best wishes,

 

Finman

That's excellent-Gbal's point though was that for the next 500 yards and especially out to 1000,performance would be better with heavier bullets,say 105/107 g,and a faster twist.Target shooting only,of course,and understandably you do not have any real data on !000y performance.

My point is that specialised (ie fast twist) 6BRs,and 243s and maybe 223s,are 1000 capable,but not standard/slower twist barrels,which will tend to disappoint at that distance.

6BR remains a very accurate and pleasant cartridge to shoot,in any twist up to about 600.

 

Gbal

[Gandy]

Gary,

 

I was going to get my .243 barrelled in 6BR but could not overcome the magazine feeding issues so i'm going 6.5x47 instead.

[Finman]

That's excellent-Gbal's point though was that for the next 500 yards and especially out to 1000,performance would be better with heavier bullets,say 105/107 g,and a faster twist.Target shooting only,of course,and understandably you do not have any real data on !000y performance.

My point is that specialised (ie fast twist) 6BRs,and 243s and maybe 223s,are 1000 capable,but not standard/slower twist barrels,which will tend to disappoint at that distance.

6BR remains a very accurate and pleasant cartridge to shoot,in any twist up to about 600.

 

Gbal

 

Αbsolutely, never claimed that I know what is going on past 500yds, but then again, never had the desire or need to do so, I've a .308 for that. I thought that 1:9 is towards the fast-end of barrel-twist-spectrum, it definitely vaporizes 58gn bullets before they reach their target.

With regard to the feeding issue, I only know that my single-stack 3 and 5-round magazines for my M590 feed impecably well. I don't know whether Remingtons or Coopers are problematic.

 

best wishes,

 

Finman

[garyw]

Having just sold my foxing rifle (r93 .243) i need a replacement, i was going to have a semi custom .243 but have been offered a cooper m22 phoenix in 6br 8 twist and am quite keen. I like to shoot bullets about the 70gn mark, but will also enjoy 105 amax for some daytime forrays.

 

Any thoughts??

OFF ROAD-i had the same rifle a few years ago although mine had a nice timber stock those coopers shoot-mine was at its best with 75 +85 vmax for vermin the 105 will shoot a treat in the gun -dont pass up on it they are worth the money.i still have a cooper albeit in 17fb pheonix.

[simon6ppc]

What's not to like, indeed excellent accuracy, handling bullet weights from 65 to 105 gn, giving it performance that beats 22-250 with the lighter bullets and at the same time giving enough energy with 87gn bullets to allow stalking, no recoil to speak off, easy to load for, extremely accurate and good to 600yds, hell, 1000yds if you're up to it . Get it, you know it makes sense

 

best wishes,

 

Finman[/quote

 

Agreed with one proviso-to get the 1000 performance a fast twist barrel is needed.,and the very best short range accuracy will be with a slow twist.As with many other cartridges (inc 243 and 223) This really means two rifles-or a pricey switch barrel.

No one rifle set up will be optimum for everything-but this is pretty generally true,not just for the splendid 6BR.

Gbal

orite gbal,just a question, how come a fast twist barrel that is say accurate at 1000 yards is not as accurate as a slow twist barrel at say 200 yard,as the fast twist one that shoots say a 4 inch group at 1000 must be lethal at 200,do you know where i am coming from, cheers simon

[gbal]

orite gbal,just a question, how come a fast twist barrel that is say accurate at 1000 yards is not as accurate as a slow twist barrel at say 200 yard,as the fast twist one that shoots say a 4 inch group at 1000 must be lethal at 200,do you know where i am coming from, cheers simon

Yes Simon,I think I see your question.See Finman's observation that the fast twist just vapourises lighter bullets.

The general point is that the low twist will give the very best accuracy with non heavy bullets at shorter ranges,but will not be ballistically capable at long ange.The fast twist with the heaviest bullets will be superior at long range,but may well give up a little accuracy,maybe not much,at short range. Nobody is saying the fast twist is not good at short range,just not quite as good,and that is the price paid for its superior long range performance,even if the difference isn't great-we are not talking

about missing a bunny 250 yrds away-with either-good rifles will be 1/2 moa or less.

Light low BC bullets just don't shoot to 1000 yards in any acceptable way.

 

If you want to be up there on wind drift with say 142g BC .565 6.5 @2950,an accepted standard for 1000 yards,you need 115g BC .585 243 @3065,and just for fun,and why 308 struggles ,the 30s need 220g BC .627 @2650.

 

Of course,sometimes other mixes will do OK,but that's where the goalposts/level playing field are.(weight/recoil/barrel life vary too,there is usually a price -in opposite directions-for performance and shootability.)

 

Gbal

[gaz6br]

Love my 6br, shoots 87 vmax and 105 Amax real good, it does everything for me great on targets, fox and the odd deer. Like it a lot more than the 243 I had

[kent]

The issue with deer is making it all uk legal ie 100 grain bullets and Scotland

[skany]

Im running a 6br for my foxer & my longish range vermin slotter!

 

55g noslers @ 3700 plus with very little recoil & 105g amax at around 2850 for longer range stuff!

 

 

 

if I was building a out & out foxer in 6br id go 22" tube with a 1-12 twist but my 1-8 shoots both bullets of choice very well altho I may be a little down on MV due to tighter twist with the 55s!

 

cheers Andy

[22/250 foxer]

OFF ROAD-i had the same rifle a few years ago although mine had a nice timber stock those coopers shoot-mine was at its best with 75 +85 vmax for vermin the 105 will shoot a treat in the gun -dont pass up on it they are worth the money.i still have a cooper albeit in 17fb pheonix.

That the one you swapped graham? If so it shoots superb I've shot it. And was tempted to buy it when he was thinking of selling

The t3 stainless on here for sale in 6br with mcmillan stock. Mod and dies is a bargain

and imo is good because it feeds from mag which is a bonus

[17Rem/6BR]

I have the Cooper M22 6BR 1in 8 Phoenix. You won't have ANY feeding probs what with it being a single shot.

Shoots in the 2s.

[Scotch_egg]

I love my 6mmbr. Good choice for all rounder. I like mine being a single shot as I hate loosing brass and it make me more careful. I shot 87gr v-max for foxing and 105gr A-max for long range varminting.

 

The recoil is so mild it is lovely to shoot.

[simon6ppc]

Yes Simon,I think I see your question.See Finman's observation that the fast twist just vapourises lighter bullets.

The general point is that the low twist will give the very best accuracy with non heavy bullets at shorter ranges,but will not be ballistically capable at long ange.The fast twist with the heaviest bullets will be superior at long range,but may well give up a little accuracy,maybe not much,at short range. Nobody is saying the fast twist is not good at short range,just not quite as good,and that is the price paid for its superior long range performance,even if the difference isn't great-we are not talking

about missing a bunny 250 yrds away-with either-good rifles will be 1/2 moa or less.

Light low BC bullets just don't shoot to 1000 yards in any acceptable way.

 

If you want to be up there on wind drift with say 142g BC .565 6.5 @2950,an accepted standard for 1000 yards,you need 115g BC .585 243 @3065,and just for fun,and why 308 struggles ,the 30s need 220g BC .627 @2650.

 

Of course,sometimes other mixes will do OK,but that's where the goalposts/level playing field are.(weight/recoil/barrel life vary too,there is usually a price -in opposite directions-for performance and shootability.)

 

Gbal

ye pal, so is it like a fast twist which shoots 4 inch at a 1000 would do say a half inch at 100, where as a slow twist say ppc is less than quarter inch at 100 but at a 1000 would be some thing silly like a 40 inch group or even more, so the fast twist starts off good not brilliant but keeps it up, but a slow twist starts off brilliant but looses it very quick say 300,400 yards or so, sorry if this sounds complicated but some thing that as always been on my mind, thanks for replying simon......

[Offroad Gary]

I am convinced..

[gbal]

ye pal, so is it like a fast twist which shoots 4 inch at a 1000 would do say a half inch at 100, where as a slow twist say ppc is less than quarter inch at 100 but at a 1000 would be some thing silly like a 40 inch group or even more, so the fast twist starts off good not brilliant but keeps it up, but a slow twist starts off brilliant but looses it very quick say 300,400 yards or so, sorry if this sounds complicated but some thing that as always been on my mind, thanks for replying simon......

Essentially,yes ,Simon.

The issue is really the BC-for longer range the higher the BC the better,and that means in practice a heavy bullet (heavy for the calibre)-and a heavy bullet needs a fast twist to stabilise it.and of course,enough velocity so that it remains super sonic.

You might occasionally read that someones 1 in x will shoot,and someone else's 1 in x won't shoot some bullet-on the limits,there are sometimes small differences in barrels-maybe a quarter turn more/less twist', so that explains the apparent difference-there really is a twist difference either side of the 'critical ' limit,and barrels just differ a little-same with fps-not a lot,but they are not all clones.

In an accurate cartridge (ppc,BR) there isn't much accuracy trade off for the fast barrels,if lucky almost none,but essentially the slow twists are just not in the game at all at long range,and the fast twists are very much in it-especially in benign conditions.

All this has changed the game a lot-there was a time when eg there were only 100g hunting profile bullets (low BC)for the 243,but with modern heavy (115 Dtac) target oriented (hi BC)bullets,and fast twist,we have a very different cartridge,and it's essentially a quite different cartridge so loaded.Ditto 223,and others-so if an old timer says the xxx is limited,check he is up to speed and twist.

The search for the 'do it all' with one loading is largely doomed to compromise,but cartridges like the BR can extend the useable envelope quite a bit with a single loading,and be suitable and shootable.And not many really need to shoot at very long range,and if they do,will pretty soon want something that does not handicap them-a hot 7mm,currently,and won't want it for 200 yard bunnies.

The one gun man is like the one spanner mechanic,the 6BR though is quite an adjustable wrench.Perhaps one club golfer is a better analogy,but not the putter!(or Hornet,if we want to stir things up a bit) :-)

Gbal