Toby Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Hi, I have been mounting scopes on rifles since my airgun hunting days. Usually managing to get the reticule straight. The last two that I have mounted recently I have noticed afterwards that they are slightly out of centre. I normally position rifle in a steady rest and level it with a spirit level and use a weighted line to line up the vertical plane after setting eye relief and making sure that bolt handle clears. I am thinking that the scopes have twisted slightly during the gradual tightening process.Rings in question are Talleys and Optilocks. Davy's scope levelling device looks great but I don't have a rail on any of my rifles. How do you get your reticules level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 To stop the 'final tightening twist'; get someone to help you by applying firm (but sensible! ie with 2 thumbs) downward pressure on the scope whilst you tighten the rings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcampbellsmith Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 How do you get your reticules level? Toby. The short answer is always with great difficulty. I do now use the following tool. However last night the scope looks fine, but levelling off the turret didn't work at all. I clamped the rifle in a workmate and levelled off the action level in this kit. Externally the scope is squint, internally, the reticule looks spot on. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/529349/wheeler-engineering-level-level-level-scope-crosshair-leveling-tool Regards JCS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gandy Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Talley's can be a bit awkward, I find that if tighten the rings and then tighten the bases it stays bit more level. Hope this helps, Gandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achosenman Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 You could do as everyone has suggested…or you could make life easy for yourself and use TPS rings. My link Torque the left side up, make sure the scope is level in the rings then torque the right side up…simples. The scope will not move since the rings are designed to prevent this annoying problem. IMHO they are the best you can get without spending a small fortune. ATB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJR Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Guys, this isn't a dig at anyone but why do people struggle with the relatively simple task of mounting a scope? Scope leveling devices are all well and good and i'm not knocking any of them BUT they all make assumptions i.e your picatinny rail is mounted square and true etc and they all work on a very small contact area. This magnifies any small descrepancies in the scope mounting and you end up off square and/or out of line. So, mount the bottom half of you rings on you rifle. Now vertically align your rifle in a bench vise/workmate. I use a plumb bob and engineers square to achieve this. Now point your rifle at a known vertical object - door jambs are perfect and can easily be checked with a spirit level. If required run a strip of black insulating tape down the jamb for better definition. Now focus your scope down to the correct distance or move further away until you can clearly see the edge of the jamb. Lie the scope in the bottom of the rings and check to see that it sits nicely in the rings and nothings crocked. Look through the scope and rotate it until the stadia line up with the edge of the door jamb. Fit the tops of the rings and tighten them each side a little at a time to ensure they snug down squarely. You can check the scope hasn't moved at any point by simply looking through it. Torque the ring screws to the correct torque and you're done. simples. you can to check realignment - carefully remove the rings with the scope still in them and refit to rifle. Be careful not to desturb rifle while doing this and the stadia should be vertically aligned when refitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achosenman Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 MJR FWIW I didn’t think the question was about how to level the scope but rather how to keep it level as you tighten the rings…I may be wrong. ATB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJR Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 How do you get your reticules level? Did I miss something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcampbellsmith Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Guys, this isn't a dig at anyone but why do people struggle with the relatively simple task of mounting a scope? ... Now vertically align your rifle in a bench vise/workmate.... Because it's not simple. 3 riflesmiths, five months elapsed time and several hundred pounds couldn't mount a scope on my Mannlicher Pro-Hunter. Secondly, you have to pick some reference point for your rifle, it's not as easy as saying 'vertically align' your rifle. What bit of your rifle do you pick? With the Sako 75 I used to use the bottom of the stock/magazine as that was quite flat. I have struggled with scope mounting for nearly 40 years and it's not because I am thick. I don't expect the situation to improve over the next forty years. The only recent improvement I have observed and invested in, is scope rails, but they may or may not be true to anything. I have yet to find anyone offering a bespoke scope mounting service. I would cheerfully pay £100 every time for a guaranteed scope mounting. With the fixings then painted over stop them being fiddled with. Finally, I was brought up in a house where no wall or door frame was square to anything. Regards JCS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoEntry Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 These may be handy. Scope levelling device. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achosenman Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 How do you get your reticules level? Did I miss something? Mea culpa that was indeed the last question he asked. ATB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achosenman Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 jcampbellsmith you’re absolutely correct. Whatever part of the rifle you use, you are only guessing that it will in fact be square to the bore. Like you I had the same difficulties choosing a square point on the Sako 75’s. I now level and mount the scope with the action out of the stock. I reckon that the flat bottom is more likely to be square than any other part of the rifle that is sat in a bedded stock. ATB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJR Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 JCS, like I said i'm not having a dig at anyone. If you've had 3 different smiths have a look at your rifle then theres either something wrong or you managed to find 3 poor smiths! Did any of them give you a reason for your scope not lining up? did any of them check the action for concentricity? I'm sure there are smiths on here that could sort it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggy Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 just fitted a scope to my rifle this is what I do fit rings to picatini rail and take off top clamps put gun on bipod "locked" put spirit level on top of ring bases and level rifle using packers under bipod feet "playing cards " remove spirit level and put scope in rings ,level ret to plumb line at the end of the garden and nip up rings . double checked it by tilting square section key steel between rail and flat part of bottom of scope and look for any light at either side. looks good to me Aggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liongeorge Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 MJR i think what JCS was getting at and I am interested to know how you ' align your rifle vertically using a plumb bob and square'. That is the crux of the simple technique you have suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Toby, what make/model rifle and scope are you using, any chance of a photograph of the action from the port side when you get a moment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldie Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Regarding the rail not being square. If it isn,t then mounting the scope is the least of your problems. Its not common. Just recieved a set of scope mounting wedges from Davy. The absolute last word in these devices. Idiot proof. Send me the larger set, and a bill Davy, they are superb mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 The Viking polished and posted another lot today including yours Dave so should be with you in the next day or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c18rch Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Don't know if this has been said, only skim read so sorry if I've missed it. I just use a plumb line. Sight down the barrel, centre the plumb line, level the scope rail with a spirit level then sight the scope on the plumb line. As above apply gentle pressure when torqueing down the rings. Job done. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJR Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 My rifles have straight stocks and the actions are bedded squarely in them. I put the rifle on the bipod on a flat surface or workmate. I then square the rifle vertically off the heel of the stock and then double check along each side of the stock level with the action using an engineers square or plumb bob. I then check the reticle as previously described. Use a small spirit level if you wish to check the rail is horizontal but be aware some are more accurate and more sensitive than others. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 Can I offer a nerd thought: It doesn't matter whether the rifle is vertical in the stock or level on its bipod; all that matters is that the reticle is parallel/perpendicular to the line joining the axis of the bore and the axis of the scope. For quite a while now, I've leveled scopes without looking through them. I set the flat base of the saddle parallel by eye with the top of the rail; in the case of an AI, I do it parallel to the upper surface of the one-piece. If you keep changing your viewpoint from side to side of the rifle its easy to 'set parallel'. Davy's wedges are an advance on the same concept. ....but ever noticed how you can do all this; know that you've absolutely mechanically set the reticle parallel/perpendicular to the line joining the axis of the bore and the axis of the scope; but then you shoulder it and it looks 'off' in one direction. You then check by shouldering it on the other shoulder and it's off in the other direction I think 'mechanical' levelling is the way to go. -and as mentioned earlier; downward pressure on the scope during tightening to stop it tipping when the rings are tightened has always been a critical final step for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryh Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 Gents, I do not get to put on as many scopes as some of you - it is your trade. I have used a few different methods to get the scope 'square' to the rifle (note will be buying some of Davy's wedges when i get back, beats the snot out of my pile of feeler gauges ). I digress, regardless of the method used I then test at the range buy putting up a tall strip of whte paper on a ply backer (wall paper's good) and using a level put a verticle line onto the paper with a horizontal line at the bottom (inverted 'T') finally adding two dots. one bout 2-3" above the junction of the 'T' and one off to the side. Couple of shots at the lone dot to clear the tube/warm up/check zero then fire a couple of rounds at the dot on the T. Add a good bit of elevation, say 2 mil, fire couple more at the dot in the T, add more elevationetc.etc. if your scope's vertical tracking is in line with bore then your trail of bullets should go up the vertical line. You use the horizontal line on the target as a reference with your horizontal reticle line. You can come back down if you doubt your scopes capabilities or add marks on the vertical line at known distances above the dot to check the actual 'click' value for your scope. the vertical spacing of these check marks is dependant on your scope and the distance you are shooting. Might be an empirical method but I'm more confidence in this as a check sum, I do not normally remove my scopes much so doing it this way ensures I'm slinging ammo down the range with as few umknowns as possible. To my simple brain this is a true test of your rifles set up? Hoping your stock and action's square or assuming the vertical adjustment mechanics are square to the external flat on the body of the scope are just that,assumptions (ref. scopes, probably a reasonable assumption with a quality scope) Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 Couple of shots at the lone dot to clear the tube/warm up/check zero then fire a couple of rounds at the dot on the T. Add a good bit of elevation, say 2 mil, fire couple more at the dot in the T, add more elevationetc.etc. if your scope's vertical tracking is in line with bore then your trail of bullets should go up the vertical line. You use the horizontal line on the target as a reference with your horizontal reticle line. You can come back down if you doubt your scopes capabilities or add marks on the vertical line at known distances above the dot to check the actual 'click' value for your scope. the vertical spacing of these check marks is dependant on your scope and the distance you are shooting. Might be an empirical method but I'm more confidence in this as a check sum, I do not normally remove my scopes much so doing it this way ensures I'm slinging ammo down the range with as few umknowns as possible. To my simple brain this is a true test of your rifles set up? Terry I've tried that, but on a South facing range with prevailing westerly wind, I find my scope generally seems to be canted left? (unless the wind is from the East when it seems to have tipped the other way?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryh Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 Matt, ????? Does not compute? - Does not compute? (said with metalic robot voice) If the winds coming from left to right the bullet strike is going to go right - agreed, no question. Why will the wind pick up in proportion to your elevation change, a 3mph wind is a 3mph wind? it might shift you bullets 1/2" right but it will be 1/2" right all the way up, if you scopes nounted corcked then you'd have the scope cant error (progrssivly getting more as you increase elevation) plus the 1/2" wind drift - yes? I'd not assume to do this on a very windy day, same as not doing load develeopment under the same sort of conditions - your results could have unquatifiable errors Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 I was being silly Bit like shooting met balloons and the met boys going 'how unusual the wind's straight down today' It's funny in my head anyway. (My excuse is that I've got man-flu). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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