What makes a good gunsmith?

[matchking]

Well? What would you say makes a good gunsmith.For me it's a combination of several things such as.A understanding to what the customer wants not just trying to push someone into something.just because they may not have a barrel and remar the customer requires.Attention to detail is also important, Not letting a rifle go out unless it is 100% Also they need to be an agony aunt and listen to all weird and wonderful calibres you are considering and advise you on what will work and what is completley a no no.I have been lucky that i have had some superb work done by some excellent gunsmiths.Such as neil mckilop aka dasherman now my gunsmith of choice.Much to his disgust His work has always been spot on.Callum ferguson is also a gentleman and a master craftsman all be it a pricey one.Also Russ gall is nice guy to deal with and his work is also A1.Well gents what makes a good gunsmith for you?Also who?

ATB SEAN

[Mike357]

It's a tricky question but your observations of what makes a good gunsmith are spot on. Also I believe a good one should be more than someone that bolts quality kit together. They should also be a shooter!

 

There are many good ones, but for me, balancing experience, facilities, knowledge, its Valkyrie.

[Tikka 260]

I am very pleased with both Callum's and Dashermans work, both fulfill the criteria mentioned above, however, additionally I would include Ronin and Steve Kershaw in my list..all four are good listeners, and offer sound advice in reply, and a superb quality product. I have no experience of other UK based gunsmiths, so unable to comment.

Best to All

P

[oaken]

Everyone knows the big names. Mostly they are big names because their work is top notch and inevitably, their prices do reflect their success. I have a rifle built by Dasherman, it is a cherished possession and will hold it's value because of his name. However........

........There are some very good gunsmiths in the making that need support and publicity to help them on their way. They do top work but cannot command top prices so that means a good deal for us not to mention getting the job done quickly with meticulous attention to detail.

The only rifle that shot the egg at Diggle this year was built by a chap that is just in the process of setting up a workshop near Manchester. The rifle is a polygonal barrelled Savage and is a work of art, built by Luke Wady. Remember the name, I'm sure you will hear it again when folks are talking about top shooting rifles in years to come. He will be building my next project rifle.

Take every opportunity to promote gunsmiths that produce top quality work but have not had the breaks- yet!

And get a bargain to boot.

Rup

[devilishdave]

To me is it is 60% ability and 40% customer service.

 

Dave

[CZ Varminter]

Someone who has experience through failure. As daft as it may sound. You only make yourself better by knowing what has been done wrong. Gotta be a nice person as if its anyone like myself then you will no doubt be communicating with them alot! I also agree on the fact that they should be a shooter.

[Alycidon]

It's a tricky question but your observations of what makes a good gunsmith are spot on. Also I believe a good one should be more than someone that bolts quality kit together. They should also be a shooter!

 

There are many good ones, but for me, balancing experience, facilities, knowledge, its Valkyrie.

 

Several high quality rifle smiths I am aware of don't really shoot much. Working with guns all week you want time away from them on your days off.

 

A

[Gandy]

Very interesting thread as I am saving currently for another rifle (groan from the missus), for me its about giving good advice and being willing to give a garunte in respect of accuracy at the time of ordering.

 

People who I have spoken to and been impressed with so far are:

 

Steve Kershaw

Valkyrie (although writing a cheque will be difficult with that name)

-

 

will also be speaking to a few others but to be fair all seemed very helpful and gave similar advice.

[c18rch]

 

The only rifle that shot the egg at Diggle this year was built by a chap that is just in the process of setting up a workshop near Manchester. The rifle is a polygonal barrelled Savage and is a work of art, built by Luke Wady. Remember the name, I'm sure you will hear it again when folks are talking about top shooting rifles in years to come. He will be building my next project rifle.

 

Rup

 

Beat me to it Rup, although don't let him see that you said he's near manchester. Thats the wrong side of the pennines. It's almost as bad as calling a northerner a southerner.

 

Luke is based in Huddersfield and I can highly recommend his services.

[Finman]

From the beginning of my involvement with rifles, I have been fortunate to be introduced to Mike Norris. This was pure luck, as 9 years ago I didn't know the difference between 6mm and .243....He has built, or worked on, 3 out of my 4 centrefires and has given me plentiful (and sensible) advice from the get go, on all aspects of gun building, load development and marksmanship. Top bloke and I don't think I will have the pleasure to be building any rifles with any other gunsmiths in the future...

 

Steve Jones (Trent Firearms) also deserves a mention as he has all sorts of useful advice on equipment and his gunsmithing work is always top notch. Plus he has a little treasure trove of a shop!

 

best wishes,

 

Finman

[Davy]

We have only had two custom rifles built and they were by the same person. For me it is TCQ regardless of who builds it.

 

Time to build

Cost of build

Quality of work.

 

If you can find a Gunsmith who can chamber and build an accurate rifle that looks good, is an acceptable price and is delivered in a realistic time then use them.

 

Good communication is another factor to take into account.

[6mmBR]

Quality work backed up with good communication and a reasonable build time.

As they say "good things come to those who wait" but hopefully not to long .

As you know Dasherman for me ticks the above boxes, he has always given good service and is fearsley proud of the work he produces.

We all have faith in the smiths we use and hence I have found no need to test the talents of the other fine smiths mentioned in other replies.

Cheers

Dave

[22/250 foxer]

1st thing i look at is how close to home are they I don't want to be travelling miles and miles. though I would if I didn't have a good smith local. rfd to rfd is a choice but again adds to the price of things.

 

there are lots of gunsmiths that have made good names for there self in this country.

 

i guess it all boils down to

 

price

how long things take

distance

how you get on with them.

 

I always use Richard pope now. i have been very happy with his work, and prices. though am 1 st to admit his turn around times have been slow at times. this is due to a battle with local council he told me. people living in the area moaning about him working from home

 

anyway that is over now he told me today. he has won his case. so turn around times will be alot better. he also doesnt keep the stock of barrel like some smiths do. so that is why times are slower. everyone i know who ive come across on net. that has had work done by him have been more then happy.

 

this is good enough for me. and as long as he is in the trade i will continue to use him.

 

dasherman has a good name also. and ive seen some of his rifles. that mates have had done by him. very nice indeed.

[Vermincinerator]

I think what has already been said hits the nail right on the head however, you cant really call those mentioned gunsmiths, rifle builders would be a more apt term.

Apart from the aleady mentioned communication skills, a gunsmith should be able to fault find and repair all types of firearms, be competent in both custom metalwork and stock making, skilled in the application of various finishes, manufacture from scratch obsolete or hard to find parts as well as maiking complete rifles, shotguns and other firearms.

And last but not least, know what he is talking about.

 

Ian.

[brown dog]

I think what has already been said hits the nail right on the head however, you cant really call those mentioned gunsmiths, rifle builders would be a more apt term.

Apart from the aleady mentioned communication skills, a gunsmith should be able to fault find and repair all types of firearms, be competent in both custom metalwork and stock making, skilled in the application of various finishes, manufacture from scratch obsolete or hard to find parts as well as maiking complete rifles, shotguns and other firearms.

And last but not least, know what he is talking about.

 

Ian.

 

Ian, probably pinhead dancing, but I find most 'gunsmiths' are rifle muppets.

I have one of the finest shotgun smiths in the country living within 155 range; a fantastically skilled man who could make a best London gun from a pile of haematite and a walnut tree.

But does he know anything about precision rifles? He'll be the first to admit "no".

 

Would you buy a rigby or Holland rifle for precision riflery? No; they're sh*te in that arena.

 

To my mind 'Gunsmith' has come to mean 'shotgun smith' in UK.

I think the term for the skillset being described in this thread is 'riflesmith'.

[1967spud]

i have to personally go for Dasherman my self, Neil is a true gent to deal with and beleive me i can be a pest when a rifle is being built. I have tried another "smith" but was not impressed with customer service or attitude towards future builds (i have always gone under the impression , tthat as the customer i know what i want to spend my money on and not the person trying to sell me some thing else, although once i convey what i do want imput is needed with the build. ) although the work on the rifle was in the acceptable stable.

 

Also i do think that there are rifle builders and then comp rifle builders, in my eyes they are different , even if the process is the same i think personally that a builder who shoots for comp understands better than a "smith" who purely sticks to hunting rifles what is needed for certain classes and disciplines. You wouldnt expect VW motore to enter a GP1 Team with out firstly learning what is need for the car.

[Guest Scotland_Rifles]

A lot of good thing said here and just to add my 2 P worth,

 

BD covers it well, i too have a chap that is a gun smith but the GUN word is just that end bit after SHOT, he openly admits that he has others working in his business that know rifles better than him, but give him a pile of SG bits and a wump of wood, and you will get back a bit of Art, give him a rifle and he will of course know what end to point at the target, what bits fit in a trigger etc but hes not a rifle-smith.

 

i have 2 rifles built by recognised builders.

 

mike Norris and Niel (dasherman) both are fine instruments that are built to a very high standard and both shoot better than i do. but i like to have the following to help me choose who builds my rifles in the future.

 

1, the builder has to be contactable.(within reason)

2, he also needs to be a good listener as I'm a pain in the R's when it comes to things that cost money.

3, the price does come into it with me as I'm not a rich bloke by no means.

4, he has to be able to put forward his input face to face, not just over the phone.

5, he also needs to have pushed a few rounds down range so he knows what shooting is like and has done it not just talked about it.

 

and the final bit for me is this.

 

if i change my mind on a part or parts and how i want it done, he should always call before starting to implement the change to confirm with the pain in the R's thats still what i want doing.

 

and to cap it all, when you go to pick it up there on the desk is your proof shots with a nice clean rifle ready to go home and spend all day looking at it (i don't think so)

 

bob.

 

PS: Neil is the only one i would have build my rifles now, as he is/does all of the above.

[Orka Akinse]

A lot of good thing said here and just to add my 2 P worth,

 

BD covers it well, i too have a chap that is a gun smith but the GUN word is just that end bit after SHOT, he openly admits that he has others working in his business that know rifles better than him, but give him a pile of SG bits and a wump of wood, and you will get back a bit of Art, give him a rifle and he will of course know what end to point at the target, what bits fit in a trigger etc but hes not a rifle-smith.

 

i have 2 rifles built by recognised builders.

 

mike Norris and Niel (dasherman) both are fine instruments that are built to a very high standard and both shoot better than i do. but i like to have the following to help me choose who builds my rifles in the future.

 

1, the builder has to be contactable.(within reason)

2, he also needs to be a good listener as I'm a pain in the R's when it comes to things that cost money.

3, the price does come into it with me as I'm not a rich bloke by no means.

4, he has to be able to put forward his input face to face, not just over the phone.

5, he also needs to have pushed a few rounds down range so he knows what shooting is like and has done it not just talked about it.

 

and the final bit for me is this.

 

if i change my mind on a part or parts and how i want it done, he should always call before starting to implement the change to confirm with the pain in the R's thats still what i want doing.

 

and to cap it all, when you go to pick it up there on the desk is your proof shots with a nice clean rifle ready to go home and spend all day looking at it (i don't think so)

 

bob.

 

PS: Neil is the only one i would have build my rifles now, as he is/does all of the above.

 

So your the pain in the R's he's always on the phone too when I call

[Davy]

Talking of gunsmiths, I have just been reading an article on this, scratch built by someone who understands wood and metal, he takes a wood blank and builds his on Damascus billet and then puts then together. Craftsmen are still around if you look hard enough and have the money.

 

[terryh]

As pointed out it's a 'horses for courses' thing.

 

Choose your Smith for what you want. A good London Gun type smith will be magic with wood or making parts from scratch for an old shotgun, I have a friend like this, re-stock a shotgun with Walnut no sweat, ask him about bedding and he will tell you is not his field.

 

I've only physical experiance of three UK Smiths, Cullum Ferguson (many years ago), Steve Bowers (from an engieering approach) and currently Pete Walker (having seen/handled his work and accuracy results).

 

As with everything decide what you want from a rifle and work back from there.

 

Time can be a problem if you want a specific item, e.g make of action/barrel/stock but you are spending a chunk of hard earned cash so a bit of (resonable) waiting is acceptable rather than taking a swifter delivery for not quite waht you wanted.

 

Talk to your perspective Smith, see if you think you can work with him as he's going to be a long term 'friend' in shooting.

 

Re. the point the Smith should also be a shooter, not too sure about this, he should be able to test fire a rifle but not necessairly go out and win a comp. But it definitly helps if he understands the comp that the rifle's destined for (my pet niggle is recent crop of Smiths who advertise 'tactical' rifles with a VIAS fitted FFS!! )

 

Brgds Terry

[baldie]

Fire a tactical rifle with a benny cooley brake on at Bisley, and see how popular you are Terry.

 

About the same as a fart in a space suit.

 

Vais brakes are fitted more commonly these days due to most ranges disliking brakes full stop.

 

Yep, they give a dust signature, and blow grass about. Didn,t stop my 6mmAr with one fitted taking 1 gold, one silver, and 3 bronzes in the recent week long civilian service rifle.

 

I,m a firm believer in getting out there and WINNING with guns, ones built. Its the best advert going.

[terryh]

Dave,

 

We could get into a long depate over this but here's my comment.

 

I agree, for probably 95% of folks that want and shoot a 'tactical' rifle in the UK and who are only ever going to shoot on square on, fixed distance ranges e.g. Bisley, over grass, again Bisley/Diggle etc. then there is not a problem with a VIAS, it is a very effective brake.

 

If someone however wants to shoot a true tactical comp, which McQueens and CSR are not, and the ground is dry and dusty then after the first few stages the rifle, and those of the guys either side of you (dependant on the stage) will have dust in/on them. If you've travelled a way to shoot a comp why deliberatly stack the chances of the rifle packing in?

 

So we can agree to disagree

 

As I said, you look at what the rifle needs to do for you and work back from there.

 

Brgds Terry

[baldie]

All very true Terry.

 

The point i,m trying to make [not very successfully is ] That the various bodies/range owners up and down this country seem to be developing a dislike of brakes. brought about by the very efficient side ported brakes such as Benny Cooleys, surefires, miculec,s Hollands etc. I've fitted a lot of these over the years, but now try and steer customers towards the Vais style brakes, because i know they dont cause the same kerfuffle amongst the range Nazi's up and down.

 

Large calibre,s need brakes, and if they end up being banned, the guns and shooters themselves will suffer. Its a damage limitation excercise really, and a concession to those that dont like brakes, who are probarbly southern and drink shandy.

 

Unfortunatly, we have to make do with what we,ve got in The UK regarding Legal, tactical style comps, as we dont have the space, laws or facilities the yanks do.

 

CSR is a good discipline, whilst being at known distances, you are shooting at military targets, that turn, pop up etc, from a multitude of positions, and includes run-downs etc....great fun.

I have a load of pics from last week, and will pop them up in another thread later, hijacked this one enough.

 

best, Dave.

 

[brown dog]

So good he can do it with his eyes shut:

 

USE THE FORCE DAVE:

[Guest Scotland_Rifles]

So your the pain in the R's he's always on the phone too when I call

 

sad to say that would be me. i never give the bloke 5 mins rest.

 

bob.