Catch-22

@Ronin

I’m not in the market for a new gun (got an Impact 737 with MPA comp chassis coming) but I couldn’t see anything about magazine options available for the Vision chassis.

I assume from the pics showing a chassis with an Sig 200STR/SSG 3000 it uses the Sig mags.

What about the Rem 700 clones? AICS or AW mags?

And which of the Rem 700 action clones will the chassis work with? (Eg Defiance, Bighorn, Impact 737 etc)?

Cheers

@baldie Is it somewhat similar to JB Bore Paste?

No expert on the matter, but doesn’t polishing the bore counteract or diminish the barrel lapping process?

I can understand there will be some roughness in the throat where the reamer cuts into the lands. I can see sense in needing to smooth this area out a bit. I guess that’s what the ‘running’ in process is when the barrel has a few hundred rounds down it. The bullets are literally smoothing out any burrs and roughness. 

But is the ‘polishing’ necessary all the way down the bore? Or just the first few centimetres of the throat area?

And I assume you don’t polish the bore at each cleaning interval, just on a new barrel prior to break-in?

Thanks in advance

@baldie very helpful, thanks for the reply.

I had no idea that coating the bullets slowed the running in process!

I think it’s key for me to break the Magnetospeed out on the next range trip and see where my loads are at. 

At Kingsbury, I noticed my rounds just eat out the v-bull at 300m with relative ease. My Kestrel said I needed 0.7MIL elevation but my scope needed zero dialled in to be on the V.

At 600m, the Kestrel suggested 3.6MIL but I only needed 2.4MIL. Accuracy was pretty good for the most bit with the odd flyer pushing me out to the 5 or 4 ring. The winds could have played a factor in dancing that little bullet around a bit. I wonder if also my barrel was speeding up / coppering up, pushing me in to a slightly unfavourable node?!

The chronograph will help me thinks!

Thanks again.

Some interesting findings now I’m at the 450 round mark in my 6.5x47 barrel.

1. I need way less elevation than my Kestrel 5700 Elite w. AB suggests. About 1.1MIL less at 600m. After plugging in all the correct data collected from up top and the Kestrel is calibrated / setup correctly too. I suspect it could be the HbN improving their slipperyness. Maybe just the barrel speeding up a bit since I last chronied!? Unsure though - need to do some further testing to be sure.

2. Despite my bore patching carbon out in one pass (1x grey, rest clear) I found a good amount of coppering, especially the last 2-3” towards the muzzle. 

I’ve cleaned the bore throughly with Hoppes #9 and Sweets. Before my next shoot I’ll re-swab the bore with my ‘slurry’ mix and chronograph the loads again to see if the barrel has indeed sped up or not, then adjust my Kestrel data if so. 

Anyone else using HbN noticed some coppering after extended shooting, or their drop values being less than expected/suggested?

Never had an issue with the standard lid. 

As for a decent pan, I bought a bartender medium sized stainless wine/spirit measure. 55ml I think. Heavy so won’t tip, tall enough to ensure even ball powders don’t jump out of the cup and everywhere. Couple of £ on flea bay.  

The other stuff is nice an all...but it’s all just more fancy, fluffy stuff which isn’t actually needed. Save yourself a few quid to spend on a few more thousand primers.

4 hours ago, biged85 said:

I have tried the CCI BR2's and am now using Federal Match LRP's as they show a small improvement and cost less. I am using Starline Brass as Norma and Hornady performed even worse. Unfortunately my rife does not like Lapua SRP brass, the primers get pierced even with moderate loads. 

It's just weird, I can get amazing performance reloading my .223 and follow the same procedure for my 6.5 creedmoor but I just can't get the results. I want H4350 back!!!!! boohoo

If you’ve tried different cases and primers with the Nosler 140gn RDF, I’d consider changing the bullet. The 139 Lapua Scenar is an excellent bullet for the money and a lot of people get on with them, regardless of jump. Seems to be one of those ‘unfussy’ types - just works well. And a lot of people find RS62 to be a very good powder, myself included in my 6.5x47.

46 minutes ago, biged85 said:

I have really struggled to get anything better than 1 MOA with 140 RDF's and even then I get the odd flyer.

Out of interest, what sort of jump worked for you Baldie?

I use RS62, can't remember the weight off the top of my head, I get about 2670 fps with an ES of 30 😕 which is just pants.

What primer are you using? 

In the past I had huge issues with crap ES/SD in my 6.5x47. ES was like 50fps or something horrible.

A switch from CCI450s to Murom KVB-223m brought my ES down to around 12fps with an SD of 9, with no other change what so ever to the load.

In a new rifle (also 6.5x47) my current load gives me an ES of around 13fps and SD of 6. The best I’ve achieved with this rifle and primer combo was ES of 4, SD of 1 but the MV was too low.

Worth borrowing some different primers off someone. Laurie’s extensive primer testing has shown it’s all about tuning the components and a primer change can make all the difference to both ES/SD and group sizes too.

Good luck!

I think there’s always a balance. Too waterproof and they don’t breathe, making ones balls clammy 😭

You don’t say which season you have a preference to wear them in, but I’d have a look at the Sasta ‘Anton’ trousers for cooler weather or their ‘Kaarna’ for warmer months. Not owned a pair but their ‘Wolf thermo’ Trousers have a Gore-tex mid-liner which supposedly makes them pretty waterproof and breathable all in one.

Anton and Kaarna made from mix of recycled polyester and wool with Kevlar around knees, crotch etc. Breathable (for Sir’s knackers) but also water repellant enough for most outings. 

Wolf thermo are polyester and Gortex.

Bit spendy though.

https://www.sasta.com/en/products/hunting/product/anton-housut#product=anton-housut

https://www.sasta.com/en/products/hunting/product/kaarna-housut#product=kaarna-housut

https://www.sasta.com/en/products/hunting/product/wolf-wolf-thermo-housut#product=wolf-wolf-thermo-housut

Very sad. Thoughts are with his family.

Damn you Kenblock...damn you man!

I think the OP was intending to both shorten and have it re threaded and crowned. Generally that’s what happens when chopping a barrel - it happens from the muzzle end. Unless of course you want to rechamber, in which case the barrel gets chopped from the breech end (contour of the Knox permitting) and rechambered in a different calibre (for example). 

booboobear - if you’re not changing calibre or the breech end, so only lopping some off the end and threading and crowing, the barrel will also need a re-Proof.

Somewhere between £150-£250 shortening, threading and crowning, another £100 proof. 

Dunno where you are based, so unless there’s a decent gunsmith near you, factor another £25 each way for RFD handling fees to get it to your chosen smith and back again. 

Though for only a few hundred quid more, you can get a custom barrel made up (thinking one of the excellent Begera barrels, or a Lother Walther barrel). They cost around £200 -£250 for a blank and a good Smith is likely to charge around £600 for a full barrel job (the barrel, chambering, threading, crowing & proofing). Painting will be extra though. Reason why I suggest this as an option is Rem factory barrels are not really the best and you're paying about 60% of the cost of a custom barrel purely to keep the old factory barrel...with who knows how many rounds down it or how well it’s been maintained. Just don’t throw good money after bad. Worth considering.

What a lovely range Kinngsbury is. 

Had a blast today (excuse the pun). Weather largely good, company very good, shooting do so. At 600yds the little 123gn Scenars we’re dancing around the v-bull a bit...interesting winds that not only crossed the range but also make the bullets dip and dive randomly.

interestingly my Kestrel Elite AB over-egged my dope by a fair margin. Despite having the appropriate data captured and plugged in correctly, i was actually at least 1MIL higher than the Kestrel said I should be. Think part of it could be my barrel speeding up a bit. But also wondering if the HbN is also making my bullets just that much more slippery and efficient in the wind. Dunno?!?

Thanks to all who helped advise, and those of you I met today! 👍

Very nice! Good luck for what is a complete bargain!

6 hours ago, Brillo said:

I was just about to say that I’ll see you there this Sunday when you mentioned Saturday.

The first thing worth mentioning is getting there. From your location you’ll arrive via the M42. Come off at J9 and Kingsbury is we’ll sign posted. At the second round take the third exit on the B4098. After you go under the narrow bridge there are two turnings to the left right next to each other. Take the second. Follow the lane and the car park and club lodges are just after the 600 yd firing point.

As SMLE says, if you get they for 8 o’clock you won’t go wrong. Although I shoot with another club I have attended with ODRC several times and their range briefings can take place at the car park or at the 300 yd firing point. Whatever happens they will look after you . They’re a good crowd to shoot with. 

Like the others have stated, do not forget your FAC and SSC. You will definitely be asked to show them. Good luck and enjoy.

Many thanks for the detailed help Brillo!

Yeah after such a long hiatus due to the delay ODRC has renewing their HO approval, I thought I’d give Kingsbury a go as it’s one of the first shoots this year. 

Really looking forward to it, I know the ODRC chaps who venture to Rogiet and Sennybridge F, J3a and G ranges are always pleasant and good for a laugh.

Thanks again!

SOLD!

Cool - thanks chaps!

Can anyone who shoots at Kingsbury please help me out with some info. I’m a member of ODRC but I’ve never shot at Kingsbury before - this coming Saturday will be my first trip.

Is the range briefing at 08.30am, ready for a 09.00am start?

And is there anything I need to know about where to park, protocols over bringing kit to firing points then moving the car etc? 

Thanks in advance! 

Thanks very much for all the photos, help and insight, really appreciate it. @Bangbangman @MichalS @Mattnall

Seems there are a few good options and flexibility with powders. I was planning to use N140 and RS52 as I have plenty of these powders for use in other cals.

 I think I’m likely to use the 77gn TMK and/or 80gn SMK as they’re readily available. 

I had thought about going with a 1-7 or 1-6.5” twist and throat it for the 90gn+ bullets but i felt the faster twist will have a negative impact on barrel life and really I’d need to single load those long bullets when they’re seated optimally, which I don’t want to do. And I too agree with your point about better cals out there suited for 800m+, and plan to continue shooting my 6.5x47 at these distances, with the big .338NM for further out. 600m is likely to be the mainstay for the .223ai.

Thanks again all! 

I’m interested to hear from anyone with experience shooting .223 or .223AI with heavy bullets, mainly out to 600m - possibly 900m.

Bullets I’m most interested to hear about include;

Sierra 77gn SMK and 80gn SMK

Sierra 77gn TMK

Hornady 75gn ELD-M

My .223AI barrels will be 26”, 1-8” twist and be for training on paper, not comps. I believe the .223AI chamber will be cut with a freebore of around 0.069”...similar to the  Wylde. I’ll be using .223 Accurate Mags (AICS pattern) which should allow me to seat bullets far out enough for a 2.700” COAL, so plenty of boiler room to play with.

Any experiences? 

Thanks!

I agree with the last two. I bet it was cut with the reamer used to chamber the barrel and it’s gotta be either;

1. Loaded length gauge, indexing off the OGive

or

2. Case gauge to measure headspace against the reamer used to cut the chamber

Definitely something to gently pull apart and see what’s inside. Does the previous owner know what it’s for?

The only place I’ve found to have Sinclair expander mandrels for expanding, not the oversized mandrels used for neck turning, has been Brownells UK...though they order them from the US I believe. 

I think 21st Century Reloading also offer expander mandrels but think they’re setup to worth with their own expander die body. Spud may have these in his inventory. Or just Google it. You can of course order from them direct.

Both the Sinclair and 21st Century expander mandrels are designer to provide around .002” neck tension. 

🤬😂

Open to offers

@johnnyb0_1 tried sending you a PM but you cannot accept messages - I think you need to clear out your inbox.

On 8/5/2019 at 4:43 PM, ronzi83 said:

I think (hope i am not wrong) N150 is temp stable powder and doesnt have that nytroglycerine coat so there is no oxidation. But I think 8.8 mil for 1000m is good and i will not need heavy bullet, mayby i am wrong ? 

If someone has time to calculate my node would be great to see if it is  really node? 

 

 

Ronzi,

Using TRASOL and Lapua ballistics, they both suggest that from a 26” barrel, 123g scenar pushed at 2997fps, the bullet will enter the transonic realm at around 1000m. It will then go subsonic at around 1120m.

Hth.