Catch-22

OCRD were due to shoot on J3a (Sennybridge) this Saturday. Unfortunately it’s since been cancelled (MOD use) but the calibre restriction had also been lifted on it.

Was very much looking forward to taking the .338 boomer out for a play. 😭

But the good news might be that the ban is slowly being lifted. Will be interested to see if this extends to other ranges in time.

There’s a lot of discussion about auto throwers.

IMO none of them are very accurate if you’re using it to throw a charge and dump it in a case. Fine for hunting perhaps, not target shooting. But simply changing how you use it, they can actually be very accurate and repeatable.

When I had an RCBS Chargemaster Lite, I ran some thorough tests using N140, Varget and Lovex SO70 (similar to Accurate and Hodgdon 4350) and got some surprisingly good results.

I found that by a imply throwing a charge it was usually somewhere around a 0.1gn to 0.2gn out. 
BUT....by under throwing a charge, then removing and replacing the pan (this bit is CRUCIAL) and then manually trickling up the to the desired charge, the CM Lite would accurately measure to within 0.02gn...and with N140 is was better...essentially perfect.

My conclusion was that the scale was accurate, it was the thrower that was sub-par (or rather to be expected for a mass produced unit). But with a slight change in how it’s used, it was very very good. And it was far better and quicker than using either a beam scale or GemPro (excellent kit...just slow to use).

In the end, funds permitted me to upgrade to an A&D FX-120i with Autothrow and Autotricker combo. Seriously good, like to within a Kernel in 10 seconds good, but seriously expensive. But for me the time and hassle I now save from not having to trickle up, outweighs the cost of the Autothrow.

However, if you’re sticking with one of the commercial electronic scales, just modify the procedure (key is remove pan, replace and trickle up), I’m confident you’ll get much better results.

HTH

Bix n Andy, Trigger Tech Diamond and Huber Concepts would be my choice.

Trigger Tech Diamond 2-stage is due for release soon, but their single stage is lush!

Unsure of any Huber dealers in the UK but any gunsmith can order one for you from the States.

All the above are ball bearing triggers (low friction) and will break better than anything with a traditional sear. 

I have a Huber Concepts 2-stage and it is very very nice, way nicer than a tuned Tikka and Timney triggers I’ve had in the past. Though with hindsight I could have chosen a slightly lighter model. 
when my new rifle arrives, it’ll definitely be wearing a Trigger Tech Diamond.

If you want to coat your bullets, forget the Moly and go with HbN (Hexagonal Boron Nitride).

Cleaner, far less toxic (it’s used in cosmetics), isn’t hydrostatic (meaning it won’t attract water and rust your bore...like Moly will) and withstands high temps far better (around 2000 degrees C).

Process of coating the bullets is virtually the same as Moly but worth swabbing the bore before each shooting session with a HbN + Isopropyl alcohol mix. 

I’d never suggested a short action.

To quote Ronin;

“However, I am building something that will excel with 140-150 g projectiles that will mag feed, use all case capacity and not require magnum or 284 case“

Nothing in there about using a SA.

I personally don’t think a .260ai would be the viable option due to mag length constraints. Yes it’ll work but not ideal.

The 6.5x55ai in my mind is much more sensible as you can load seriously long (custom throat) and never have the bullet in the powder column. And there’s nothing wrong with using either Tikka mags or even long action AICS. Definitely been done before but the good cartridges never really go away...people tend to forget about them from time to time. 

6.5x55ai by chance??

On 11/12/2019 at 2:09 PM, Furyan said:

Thanks Terry Im used to shotgun manufactured load using commercial powder.

Anyway ive settled on N140 and 123grn ELD and 130 eld for now. when work allows ill get out to play

N140 is an excellent powder, I have no doubt you’ll find a good load.

In my experience you can go a fair bit higher than Lapua load data. But be careful as things can spike fairly quickly. I’d suggest loading in 0.3gn increments.

Good luck! 👍

N140 is a great powder for the 6.5x47, especially with the 123gn.

Previous rifle had a 1-8” twist, 24” barrel. With un-coated bullets my MAX charge was 38.4gn N140 which gave me around 2930fps. This was safe in my rifle and showed no pressure until around 0.4gn higher.

Current rifle has a 1-8” twist, 26” Bartlein. Using HbN coated bullets, I’m currently using 38.8gn N140 which previously gave 2904fps. However my barrel has since sped up a bit and, with the same charge, now gives around 2940fps with ES 16, SD 6.

I have no pressure going even up to 39.4gn but the accuracy wasn’t there.

Tried RS52 but it simply didn’t work in my rifle, no matter what I tried. 
RS62 was a champ, very good accuracy and excellent ES/SD numbers, but couldn’t get the desired velocity. RS62 would suit a heavier bullet 130-150gn+.

8 minutes ago, Re-Pete said:

Light neck tension might have a similar effect to a jam.........the bullet would hit the lands very early in the burn cycle.

Pete

And it’s likely to not realise the full pressure potential either.

But...I have read that some US shooters (benchresters??) like to load long and use very little neck tension - essentially letting the lands seat the bullet. I’m unsure if this is an old/outdated technique or not...something I’ve read on the accurate shooter site I believe.

However, the above is not what I do or think is right.

G7 is fine.

Interestingly, a recent survey of the top PRS shooters in the US overwhelmingly favour using G7 instead of custom curves. 
These chaps (and chapesses) have all the latest gear and would almost certainly use a custom curve IF they felt its better than G7.

So it suggests to me that G7 is doing a good enough job for anything out to 1000m.

Always worth trying a custom curve though and comparing it against a G7.0

4 hours ago, gazzarM1 said:

So I could ask a UK importer to get me one then from HS Precision or a third party over there ?

Yup. You may need to ask a few gunsmiths if they can/want to import one for you, but yes in theory.

You don’t need anything from a UK perspective (no import license, nor anything on your FAC).

But you will need a US state department export license. Easy to obtain but can take months to receive it and it’ll cost you $250.

There are many good US exporters who will do the paperwork for you and arrange shipment to you (usually DHL). As it’s just a blank, it should pass through customs and be mailed to you. BUT...I would possibly work with a UK freight forwarder who will see it through customs UK side and post it to you. It’s very likely that your parcel will be opened by HMRC to confirm contents match what’s on the export permit. 
The UK freight forwarder will also handle UK Duty and VAT, which you pay directly to them.

Personally if it were me, for just one barrel blank, I’d ask a gunsmith to put one for you on their open license and contribute to their shipping, handling, duty and VAT costs. HPS can help with that. As I’m sure Pete Walker would. Maybe even Fox Firearms too.

A slightly different scenario to you. And It probably doesn’t make a difference (don’t know for sure as I didn’t quiz my FEO specifically) but when I drew up my latest US export license I made sure to state very clearly the number of .223AI barrels I was exporting. I also made sure my FAC also clearly stated .223AI to ensure both clarity and consistency. 

Border control I’m sure would have a field day if the designations don’t match up. I preferred to err on the side of caution.

Good luck with yours

The man speaks TRUTH!

I side with your point about the need for decent data to be completely confident in your ES/SD etc. I’m a researcher myself, so totally agree.

However, with so many uncontrollable variables, I think there’s little value (personally) in trying to extrapolate rock solid statistical meaning from highly contentious data anyway. So I don’t bother really. If on the face of it, I see some pattern emerging that shows promise, AND it looks good on target, then I’m happy enough. 

I primarily focus on what the target tells me more than anything. If you’ve developed a load that delivers the goods on target consistently over multiple ranges...then happy days. 

Just an opinion.

I’m in the same camp as those who do 3 then 5.

When conducting a first pass on an OCW, I will load 3x of each charge/bullet combination. Very easy to spot the crap nodes.

After choosing the desired node to zone in on, or to refine a node with seating depth, I will move to 5x shot groups. By this point I’m close to my final load, so want to know what it’s like both accuracy wise and also run a final check on velocity and ES/SD values.

But as has been mentioned, you’ve got to be careful not to let shooter fatigue come into play, even with 3x groups. This can happen easily if trying to test multiple load combinations and you’re short of time. With only 3x in a group, a slight bit of shooter error can easily make one think the group is bad when actually the shooter made it so - giving a false reading. Here a 5x group might provide better representation. 

All comes down to personal preference and confidence in your ability to truly maintain shooter technique to ensure a 3x group isn’t misrepresented.

12 minutes ago, Deker said:

If you decide to split the timey trigger I'd be interested,  also where did you get the bipod?

I might be wrong but I believe it’s a SEB Joypod that looks to be cerakoted black.

1 hour ago, GT3_richy said:

Got a link to the exact item please?

https://www.teslong.com/catalog-c/rifle-bore-scope

Nice. Which range?

I too got mine after reading the piece in Accurateshooter.

Super happy.

I bought a little used Rossi 92 in .44mag for cheap, simple fun at gallery ranges. Granted it doesn’t look as fully refined as some, but at a 1/3 the cost of some, I wouldn’t expect it to. However the main this is that it shoots...and does so reliably.

The 92 was a bit rough/tough to cycle but I knew that was likely to be the case and ordered a replacement spring kit.

Stripping the gun is simple (if a little fiddly), replacement springs more than halved the effort of cycling. And whilst the bits were out, I took a bit of time to gently polish/smooth out the edges of critical sliding surfaces. 

It is now very very smooth, very easy to cycle and feeds/ejects perfectly.

Shoots lead cast no problem.

Theres loads of good vids on YouTube and info on the web about simple smoothing of the Rossi 92. Very easy to do and they just work. Supposedly they’re one of the few manufacturers who’s guns follow an original design pattern intended to work well with straight walled cartridges.

If US Customs deems the item to be greater than what’s been stated, your friend could get into trouble, especially as it’s a scope - I could see the US authorities getting a bit funny about it personally.

Very sad - feel for the people there!

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2019/10/massive-fire-destroys-pac-nor-barreling-plant-in-oregon/

The vertical grip was introduced following the success MPA have had since they really pioneered the use of it with their BA Competition Chassis a few years ago. Now everyone seems to be offering a vertical grip, MDT included.

Regardless if its looks, it allows the shooter to bring the thumb up and forward to the right side (if shooting right handed) which gives a much better trigger press and pull using the 3rd and 4th finger.

But if you’re looking for a AR-15 type grip, I can wholeheartedly recommend the lovely and ergonomic walnut grips made by Nill of Germany. They offer with or without the hand ‘shelf’.

https://www.nill-griffe.com/Rifle_Stocks_32.html

I would ask...does it really matter?

Whatever method you use to do your measuring, as long as it’s consistent, repeatable and the results on target make you smile... then it doesn’t really matter does it?

👍 🔫