Catch-22

2 hours ago, Mick Miller said:

 Only crazy silly thanks to Edgar's, just buy the from the other EU countries, last lot of 500 I bought I saved over £100, even with the postage. 

Tell me about it. It'll be the importers and distributors who will price most shooters out of the sport IMHO.

Ive not bought bullets from a UK distributor for years due to the insane markups imposed. Funny that only just across the channel prices are considerably cheaper than than here, even when all taxes and shipping are paid as you note.

Interestingly I saw various stores in the US having end of year clear outs. For example  Lapua Scenar 185g .30 cal going for $25/£19 a box, or 139g 6.5mm for $28/£22 a box. You'd NEVER, EVER, EVER see that in the UK. I know we don't have the volume of shooters here but even so...UK prices are a joke!

Nice Terry!

Yeah I exported everything myself for my 6.5x47 / .338 Norma Mag switch barrel, including 4x barrels, breaks, brass etc. PBS did all the handling too. Built by a UK smith though.

Looks great - should bring a big smile to your face!

@terryh Interesting - so you had the rifle custom built State side and shipped across?

Did you have a number of barrels chambered up at the same time?

When it arrives, will you be able to take delivery straight away or will it need to go via a nominated RFD to proof?

On 8/30/2018 at 1:24 PM, onehole said:

Thought I would have gotten more response to this,,,,,has anyone gotten a 243 for fox,,,? If so what were the magic words for reason to acquire? Our FEO did not have a problem in shooting a fox with 243 whilst out deer hunting but pure fox control was refused. Anyone,,,,,,,

I think it purely comes down to each Firearms Licensing Department and THEIR interpretation of what's suitable or not. Often there's no rhyme nor reason to it.

 I was told by Gwent police to put in for deer but also state 'all other quarry and vermin'. In addition to deer it would include fox, rabbits, crows etc. The calibre listed would therefore cover everything up to and including deer.

Clearly you've missed the point.

The point is; your question is the same question that's been asked many many times before. There is no 'this is THE best' because if there was there wouldn't be any need for more people to ask the same question over and over again.

In all reality, there is no one definitive best of the lot. If you're hoping for a definitive clear cut answer to one over the others...you're not gonna get it. However, be rest assured that with any of the cited options you'll be laughing all the way out to 1000m+ with the ease by which you're doing it.

If you already feel there is or are leaning towards a choice (you've said a few times before that the 6.5 CM appeals) then more power to you...go get it and enjoy. 

I think the reality is...pick one, shoot it, master it and enjoy it.

Any of the above will suit your middle/long range needs, especially transitioning from a .223. And any of them will do it to the levels of accuracy (and ease of reloading) that 99% of shooters can realistically achieve - myself included. 

Pete...I'd take a look at all the Scandinavian target shooting disciplines. Short, medium and long range precision stuff, mostly using the excellent Sauer 200 SRT chambered in 6.5x55. Granted it's THEIR local calibre, but if it ain't broke...

In a modern rifle with good Lapua brass, modern powders and 130-140g+ bullets, you'll gain better velocity than the 6.5x47 and 6.5 Creedmoor, and be on par with the .260rem. It is an inherently good design and forgiving to load for and shoot.

The reason for the Creedmoor's success is partly marketing (just such s huge push behind it by Hornady) and the fact that it does maximise what can be done in a  short action IMHO. The 6.5x47 is a wonderful round (I currently load for it myself) but unless you go with one of the few off the shelf rifles (like Sabatti) your only other option is the semi/full custom route. The .260, with long bullets seated out of the powder column, won't really work in a short action magazine. You'll end up having to seat bullets into the powder column or single load. The 6.5x55 is really an intermediate action length...too long for s true short action...so if you do go with the SWEDE, you'll need a medium/long action.

Each has their pros and cons and it's up to you to see which one fits the bill best - long or short action, single feed or magazine fed, off the shelf or semi/full custom etc...Not suggesting the SWEDE is the best of the bunch (not much between them all tbh) but certainly not to be discounted.

I'd echo looking deeper at your technique. If you admit you're not comfortable and maintaining a solid and repeatable position, shot to shot, it will show up on target.

Being able to shoot consistently small groups can only be done with a good technique - regardless of the load.

As stated above, ask a fellow shooter, ideally someone proven to consistently shoot very small groups, to watch and critique your technique and offer some pointers. 

While you're about it, I'd maybe even give them a box of ammunition and ask them to shoot some groups. Having another shooter behind your gun may help to rule out equipment issues and highlight technique instead. Cheaper and quicker than replacing a scope, stock, barrel etc.

Personally, I've seen this happen to someone. They'd spend upwards of £2k on a new AR-15 but couldn't get it to shoot better than 3" at 100m. Frustrated, he asked a couple of us to have a go. All managed to put our 10 round groups into around 0.5", with the best two 5 shot groups being under 0.2". The issue - he was using a monopod (waste of time those!) and was trying to 'free recoil' the rifle, rather than have it seated firmly in his shoulder. Once he addressed these two points, he immediately went on to shoot 0.5-0.7" groups.

I'd echo what Bradders said; clean and try again once you've checked things like your scope mounts.

If you get a chance, try first at 100-300m to see how it's grouping. That should minimise any effects the wind might be having. If all looks good, then push out further to 600m. If 100-300m is still like a shotgun, and you've squared away all your screws & fastenings, then take it to a good rifle smith to take a professional look.

16 minutes ago, baldie said:

The big difference being, this will work in a short action with heavy bullets. The 6.5 x 284 won't.

It was designed primarily as a PRS round. They dont use long actions.

Sure, I understand that but why the 6.5PRS and not the 7WSM, 6.5SAUM, 7SAUM, considering there's virtually no difference between them.

If people think it truly offers something different and want it...great. Personally I think it's just yet another pointless cartridge by a manufacturer trying to cash in on all the hype and growth around the PRS scene.

Interesting critique of the 6.5 PRC on Accurate shooter a while back. 

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2017/10/new-hornady-6-5-prc-precision-rifle-cartridge/

The main criticism is that it offers only marginal performance over a 6.5 Creedmoor or .260rem. It's basically on par with a 6.5-284 which doesn't require a Magnum bolt face and uses Lapua brass which is infinitely better than Hornadys. It also offers performance akin to other established magnums, such as the 7WSM and 6.5SAUM...so it's not really doing anything new. It will be a barrel burner though - maybe expect between 1,000 to 1,500 rounds at full whack before it's toast.

But it is new and shiny...it may prove to be more accurate or easier to tune than the rest. Only one way to find out perhaps?!? 

The 140g Hornady ELD X would be a great all round bullet for both target and culling. However all of Hornadys bullets are now crazy silly $$$. 

If you don't want to be splashing out on the ELD x you might consider having two loads. Use the ELD x (or SST as noted by another poster, which is an excellent hunting bullet) for culling and use something like the much cheaper but equally excellent 139g Scenar for long range gong bashing.

On 6/4/2018 at 1:23 PM, ezmobile said:

But here's the rub. Its a new rifle, Savage mod 12 LRP, which is supposed to be a pretty good factory rifle. Mated to a new MDT chassis and very decent scope and is a peach to shoot, so I'm a little perplexed and don't know what to look at first, but suspect it may be down to the ammo?? These bullets have a wide array of opinions from really good to not that great and powder is good for this caliber (6.5 Creed).

Any thoughts anyone? 

I'd check all the usual suspects;

1.Scope ring screws locking down the scope 

2. Rings to base/rail screws

3. Rail to action screws

4. Action to chassis screws, front and rear

5. If using a moddy or muzzle brake, check how well it's locked down. Or try without it on.

if none of the above resolves the issue, check rifle with a different scope and set of rings to rule this out.

Failing that, try some factory ammo to check there's nothing wrong with the home loads.

If all else fails, get it checked by a rifle smith.

TBH, I wouldn't have thought RS62 to be well suited to the lighter bullets anyway. It's a slow-ish burning powder which, in my experience of other similar slow burning powders, is best suited to the heavier bullets. The slow burners need more dwell time in the barrel to generate sufficient pressure and thus velocity to push the bullet out. The heavier the bullet (more mass to force out the barrel) the greater pressure required to do so. 

So a light bullet will exit before peak pressures have been reached, reducing the effectiveness and purpose of the slow burners. 

On the flip side, a faster burning powder like RS50/RS52 or N140 might be too fast to push the heavies along. In my own tests of 140g bullets and N140 in my 6.5x47 velocity was down but pressure was high. Really I needed a slower burning powder.

Useful test none the less, lets you know where you stand visavie your components. I am surprised in only reaching 2900fps with 46g, that's about 10gns more RS62 compared to N140 to push the 123g Scenar at similar speeds from same barrel length (albeit a 6.5x47, not 6.5 Creedmoor). If you're keen on the 123g, try RS50 or RS52.

I came across this method of keeping track of one's shots and it seems very simple and completely logical to me.

I'm definitely going to give it a try but I'd be keen to know if anyone else has used it?

https://www.autotrickler.com/blog/how-to-improve-your-score-through-strategy

13 hours ago, sam39 said:

"Personally, and no offence meant, but I think the .224" calibre (in its .222/.223rem for) to be a bit lightweight for deer. The light bullets & small wound channels leaves no margin for error."

Anyhoo - it's legal, so aim straight & good luck!

 

This is interesting I am ready to start using my 243 on roe but so far with the results from the 223 I see no need?  but I have not shot enough Roe for complete proof with each caliber. I presume you have extensively shot Roe with both calibers to decide that a 223 is a tad light? may be the 243 would extend the confidence and range but I am only after a few for the table each year so can pick my shots. I only shoot 20 to 25 a year.. .........but let me tell you out to 170 meters 223 is a killer on roe! 

No I don't have plenty of experience of stalking with .223 but I know a few people who have and all preferred the switch to a 6mm or above. They reflect what I said, a larger bore diameter, with the ability to drive faster, gave greater flexibility and reduced chance of a wounded deer.

one good reasource is Nathan Foster. He's shot litterally tens of thousands of game (goats, pigs, deer etc) and is very knowledgeable on the subject. Not much in the way of .223 resource as he too feels it's a bit unforgiving unless neck shooting, but there's plenty within the wider .224" knowledge base.

Simply follow the link, select Knowledge base, Cartridge Research, check .224" and pick from the list of cartridges.

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase.html

I think the main issue with Gamekings in general are that they have quite a stout jacket. In some calibres, they can pinhole like a FMJ.

To be safe, I'd avoid the meat saver shot (behind foreleg into the lungs) and ideally either neck shoot or alternatively drive it directly into the shoulder/foreleg to help aid expansion & grounding of the animal. However, leg shots may not be the best option if the animal is largeish (90kg+). If not driven fast, you may get shallow penetration. 

Personally, and no offence meant, but I think the .224" calibre (in its .222/.223rem for) to be a bit lightweight for deer. The light bullets & small wound channels leaves no margin for error.

Anyhoo - it's legal, so aim straight & good luck!

Ordered mine today, can't wait for it to arrive.

Superb comms by Lubo too - top bloke!