Big Al

How long do you want the barrel to last? Of the calibers you suggest it could be anything from 1200 - 6000 rounds.

Its hard to beat a bit of Karen, the voice of an Angel 😍 As for your rubbish, I would rather see if I could get a bronze brush in one ear and out the other 😉

You are right, tuner weight, thread pitch, barrel stiffness and increment size all matter but nothing more so than how much you move it and in what kind of sequence. I know from experience and a lot of research that there isnt a tuner on the market light enough where moving it half a turn would give a small enough incremental change to not miss nodes between each half turn, hence my advice. Tuners have smaller increments marked on them for the obvious reason, depending on all the factors we agree on above you then choose to work in single or multiple equal increments but never half a turn, its just far too coarse a change for any barrel or tuner on the market.

Half a turn on a tuner is way too much, there is a good reason they have small increments marked on them.

I have a tuner on my original Finnfire, in a tunnel at 100yds I found that typically you can tune the ammo to be fully in and then fully out of tune easily, the difference is typically a bit more than a halving or doubling in group size depending on where you start. Depending on the ammo quality there will still be flyers but Im confident in my shooting technique to be able to call them. Eley Subs for example which my barrel never liked pre-tuner were shooting about 1.3" at 100yds to begin with, I improved that to 0.75" with consistency. As I continued to adjust the tuner into a scatter node it got as bad as 1.8" but no worse before coming back round to accuracy again. Something I havent concluded yet though is if every accuracy node is the same or if some are better than others, when I have more spare time I would like to find that out. Ive seen 5 shot half inch groups with SK Std, all shot from a good bench in a tunnel with a bipod and rear bag. People move tuners too much and they also make them too heavy, it doesn't take much to achieve quite a drastic change.

So few people are willing to go this short but I agree with you. 20" is by far the most common 'short' length barrel I do most of the time. Coincidently I have a T3 in the workshop now thats getting an 18" 7mm-08 barrel and is destined for a PSE stock.

Never found the need to add anything. Crushed walnut polishes cases good enough. I dont want to have to clean anything off afterwards, its just an unnecessary step that I can do without.

That could so often be said about any rifle, proving it consistently is something entirely different.

American Rifle Company actions are very good, I built one of the very first rifles in the UK on their original Mausingfield action back in 2016 and co-incidentally Ive got one almost finished at the minute for a customer. Hopefully these actions will find their way onto our shores sooner rather than later.

Those are my feelings as well.

Yes I guess your right but on that basis you only have two points of accuracy, either with the de-resonator or without it. I would imagine finding accuracy on that basis is quite pot luck. At least with a proper threaded tuner you can work your way through a fixed series of adjustments until you find the accuracy you require and that will then be repeatable as you can got back to exactly the place the accuracy was found time and time again, or make precise and trackable changes to keep up with different temps and atmospheric conditions.

You have no control over adjusting its position in any kind of measurable way or going back to a previously good spot. A proper tuner needs to be moved in very small increments of the same time each time, impossible with that butt plug.

Duplicate post.

Every ladder test Ive ever shot has shown some horizontal dispersion. Of course the wind would play its part but Ive also shot .22RF in a 100yd tunnel and CF rifles on incredibly calm days and Ive still seen it. That can only be because the barrel has moved that way, not just up and down. It is my understanding that the barrel moves in a elliptical shape rather than a straight line up and down plane. I remember one summers evening doing a PC load development at 600yds. My wind flags were every 200yds from zero to 600yds and there wasnt a twitch on any of them, the flags were very sensitive to even a 0.5-1mph wind. The test showed about 6"-12" of horizontal and about 24" of vertical over the tested charge weights. Once a powder charge has been established you can get rid of the horizontal with a seating depth ladder test.

Dont taste your time, its too easily moved so offers no consistency, there is also no fine adjustment whatsoever, its pure guess work. I would liken it to being as good an idea as filling your cases with powder by eye rather than using a scale.

Duplicate post removed.

Check out the light gun 5 shot world record, a lot better than the 10 shot one. I think you may have misunderstood me, Im all for barrel tuners on normal guns being shot over all kinds of ranges. Ive done enough with them to know they work and the benefits they give but dont confuse tuners with PC, two different ways to skin the cat. Tuners are far more versatile and work at all distances.

If you want to split hairs then the IBS 1000yd light gun five shot world record is 1.087" shot by Mike Wilson. If you followed the American IBS scene then you would see how many times groups in the 1s are shot at 1000yds and regularly by the same guys, to me that is consistency. Just because you dont believe it it doesnt mean it isnt true, go do some research. I know guys who have shot over 1000yds in the dark at 3am because there is no wind to gain the best testing results and world records have been broken but weren't verifiable as they weren't shot in competition. These guys arent out there telling lies, just trying to push the boundaries of their chosen sport. The 600yd world record is an even more impressive 0.282" for 5 shots by Bart Sauter. It sounds to me like you dont understand positive compensation in relation to CF rifles and what it being done around the world, not talked about but done and measured.

It makes no difference like I already pointed out. Different speeds lead to consistent micro trajectory differences and at a given distance then all converge to the same vertical position, within normal dispersal parameters of course. Chasing and maintaining low ES/SD figures is a ball ache so why bother when you dont have to? the PC method takes this problem away. The LRBR world mainly in America can been through this to the point it is now a given. Guys are consistently shooting 1" groups at 1000yds with differences in velocity that simply wouldn't be achievable if the load hadn't been positively compensated. The difficulty in using PC as a tuning method with CF rifles at long distances is you need the right conditions and also the right kind of range that will allow you to collect useable results and then that load is only going to converge vertically at that distance or thereabouts. My 1000yd load was hopeless at 600yds for example and vice versa. I was lucky to have access to a good place to shoot and collect my data but even then its a bit of a challenge, I was running a video camera at the target then driving back 1000yds to my firing point, settling myself and then firing. The video then showed me which shots and in turn charge weights were landing where. Most people have 100yd or maybe 300yd ranges to develop and test on while the comps are shot at much longer distances so they develop loads differently where ES and SD really matter, FClass is a typical example or most British LRBR shooters. That said the PC boys are leading the field most of the time in LRBR these days. Rimfire is different because we can shoot indoors or in tunnels. Ive been doing a fair bit of rimfire barrel tuner development lately in a 100yd tunnel range and Im quite surprised at how good my groups are at 100yds, the were never that good when shot outdoors for obvious reasons. Rimfire shooters generally shoot at 25m or 50m indoors and so can use PC easily along with tuners.

Where do we ever get a 25% variation in MV? thats just not a realistic arguement. Some LR shooters will tell you ES needs to be in single digits or your screwed, thats correct if you have developed you load outside of the PC method. Tuning using PC means the slow ones come out of the barrel at a higher position in its swing and the fast ones come out sooner/lower in the swing, however they all converge on the target in the same place from a vertical perspective at the tuning distance but only this distance, no other. These micro trajectory differences are real and work if you know what you are doing. PC is used by many of the best LRBR shooters in the world at both 600 & 1000yds I have tuned my LRBR gun with zero regard to ES and SD using PC and had no vertical troubles at all even with an ES of 40fps. People who dont understand PC tell me you cant get so little vertical with a big ES yet I was doing it consistently and winning. I would say on average 20-25fps would be my ES yet I was shooting verticals that couldnt happen if the tuning was done not using PC, I think my worst was 40fps and still won.

I can tune both rimfire and CF barrels using a tuner to show vertical groups, horizontal groups and then round groups using ammo with typical variations in velocity. Velocity variations are irrelevant if you tune a barrel to a fixed distance using the positive compensation method.

How much would you pay for a rimfire moderator with a built in barrel tuner? Serious question.

All good thanks.

Iceland is a very dark country with only an average of 4hrs daylight in December. Once you get outside of Reykjavik and off Route 1 there aren't many street lights and there are lots of people who live off the beaten track, big lights on trucks are very common just to see where they are going.

Thanks guys, every day is a school day as they say, well worth knowing 👍 I tried N140 with 105s in my 6BRA and it didn't like it at all, poor accuracy and the pressure spiked very quickly.