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Elwood

Long range bullet choice for the .308

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George, 220 grn at 2659? Wow, I think I'm gonna need bedding compound rather than Fixodent :-)

 

Got some 208 Amax to 2650 on a non SAAMI coal. Bit stiffer but nothing to write home about. Rode the wind well but was hardly flat. Seemed to defeat the point to me, would be better off with another cartridge 6.5 or 6 if you want the windage but with flatter trajectory or 3006/300WM if you really want to throw a bullet that weight. Fun trying though.

 

Not as much fun as 200 gr Subsonic :D I digress...

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Andy,quite so-remember these bullet weight/BC/velocity aggregated equivalents are to replicate the 'standard' 6.5x284 1000y performance for wind drift,not trajectory (itself no longer cutting edge).Rifle weight of course comes in too-but has competition class limits.

For knownn 1000y competition shooters,trajectory is not much of an issue-it's clicked in ,and gravity does not fluctuate-the wind does.

The figures also don't mean the values can be reached ,though it's by calibre rather than cartridge,so as you note a larger 308 calibre cartridge may well do so,even if a 308w is gasping....and it will be..

 

Ultimately,the requirements are driven by physics,and not everyone's pet will make the cut... It does help explain the two current routes...hot 6.5s,or heavy short magnums....and the 6BR if there isn't much wind (five accurate shots in 15 secs reduces even the smaller windage variation effects).

Good luck with the subsonics at 1000y-we won't hear much on that !!

g

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Only just seen this. Excellent article Laurie and a good job that I haven't just gone out and bought 200 175gr SMKs to try at 1000 (doh!....I meant "I have"). :blush:

 

I tried the #2155's but simply couldn't get the velocities needed at 1000 yds (I managed about 2,800 fps) and they were all over the place as they went through transonic region.

 

Best results to date were with the venerable SMK 190s, which on the first outing after load development put up a respectable moa at 1000 yds from a factory barrel and may have grouped tighter without the gentle, but variable sidewind.

 

As an aside, I am surprised that no-one yet has mentioned the newer TMK175s for 1000 yd F-Class/TR as their BC is significantly up on the older smk and they're still reasonably priced.

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Varm, the Sierra 190 HPBT MK (moly) was/is a good bullet at 1000y at 2530-2560fps (temperature variation).

From a good Rem700VSSF ,bench rested 5 shots, it was a mow rifle (minute of wind)...ie with a 5mph wind 5 inches,10mph wind 10 inches,15 mph wind 15 inches.....

It may be that more recent BCs have crept up,but in a modest factory rifle,it's still a bullet that is shootable for the casual ' fancy trying 308 at 1000y' shooter (as was/is the Lapua Scenar). I don't see many BR groups from comparable rifles shooting consistently better,though if your rifle likes better BC bullets,that should be your choice.

Of course all this is well outclassed competitively by better LR cartridges and rigs-shooting a 308 at LR isn't something a free choice would promote-though some competition arbitrary restrictions do-and simply 'the rifle I have,and I fancy a go at 1000y"....in which case,do...enjoy..and learn. :-)

 

gbal

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As an aside, I am surprised that no-one yet has mentioned the newer TMK175s for 1000 yd F-Class/TR as their BC is significantly up on the older smk and they're still reasonably priced.

 

I've been asked several times now if I've tried them ... the answer so far is 'no'. There has been a flood of new bullets recently, and I shoot 308 a lot less these days than I once did.

 

My limited experience with the TMKs - 160gn 7mm only - has been very good. I have some other versions in other calibres which I'll try in due course, but haven't acquired any 30s yet. As I'm about to use my last 105 Berger 155.5s up in a test series for Targetshooter online, I might buy a couple of hundred 168 and 175gn versions to see how they go.

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I'm swapping the 175's for some TMK 175s Laurie and will publish the load development results for 100 yds and 1000 yds when done. It will be interesting to compare them with the 190s (which punch a ragged hole at 100 from my rifle). I'll be using Lapua brass/Muron KVB-7 primers and RS50 propellant.

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I'm swapping the 175's for some TMK 175s Laurie and will publish the load development results for 100 yds and 1000 yds when done. It will be interesting to compare them with the 190s (which punch a ragged hole at 100 from my rifle). I'll be using Lapua brass/Muron KVB-7 primers and RS50 propellant. Gbal, I only use the .308 as it is my hunting rifle and I haven't the funds nor inclination presently to build a dedicated 1000 yd rifle. If I did, I'd either go the 7mm or 6.5 Creedmore route. I like a challenge, and to me, achieving .5moa at 600 yds or 3/4moa at 1000 yds is my (possibly unrealistic) goal with a factory rifle. I've cracked moa at both distances and may have shot better if my technique and wind reading skills were better honed! It's really not for competition aims but for fun and learning.

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is anyone shooting the newer Hornady ELD bullets for long range comps. I know they are new.

I have tried the 178 eld x in my 7.5x55 and results are very promising, just wondering who else is using them

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I suspect the ELD-Ms are struggling to obtain a foothold against existing Berger products for the serious long-range competitor, in many calibres anyway. Looking at US forums, the new 6.5s seem to be gaining traction especially amongst 6.5 Creedmoor shooters. The 143gn 'X' hunting version is particularly highly regarded for both precision and its expansion characteristics. Now that we can again buy and load expanding bullets for any purpose, this could well be a very good choice for the multi-role shooter who wants to use a deerstalking load on paper.

 

Other calibres? Judging by some heavy discounting by the major US suppliers, I doubt if they're doing very well. I know one top GB FTR competitor tried the .308 208gn ELD-M and quickly went back to the 200gn Berger Hybrid. They shot very well at shorter distances, but simply didn't match the Berger's 1,000 yards performance and consistency. Berger has really got 308 sewn up - there is at least one outstanding model in every weight category - the 155.5gn BT, 185gn BT, and 200gn Hybrid. A significant number of top northern FTR shooters still use the older 210gn Berger BT when shooting 'heavies'.

 

For many short to mid-range shooters, or those who don't need 1,000 yard 'ultra' performance, they may be very good choices - but only if they offer a substantial discount to Berger prices. So far at any rate, many models don't appear to justify premium pricing. In that case, they may have to be judged against Sierra's TMKs rather than Bergers.

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For many short to mid-range shooters, or those who don't need 1,000 yard 'ultra' performance, they may be very good choices - but only if they offer a substantial discount to Berger prices. So far at any rate, many models don't appear to justify premium pricing. In that case, they may have to be judged against Sierra's TMKs rather than Bergers.

 

And Bergers can be quite hard to come by at times too...

Thanks Laurie seems interesting times ahead...

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Great article by 2 good men !

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