jcampbellsmith Posted December 31, 2022 Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 59 minutes ago, Ronin said: Send it Series comps in Scotland are £60 entry That includes being fed lunch and water So matches don’t have to cost silly money On a different note It would be nice if someone would provide a match that’s moves away from the precision rifle “bench rest” type comp where a 30lb non recoiling rifle and a gaym changer bag are mandatory ,,,,,,, Find it, range it, shoot it, much more appealing - natural obstacles or features rather than “same old barricades” Would appeal to many people and create a level playing field Agree, I would like to shoot the PRS type match with one of my stalking rifles and know that I wasn't competing against folk with rifles that weigh twice as much or more. Regards JCS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch_egg Posted December 31, 2022 Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 Hunter class in the states deals with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted December 31, 2022 Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 26 minutes ago, Scotch_egg said: Hunter class in the states deals with this. Well we need it here Precision steel plate shooting is stagnating a little this side of the pond Needs to be made interesting and appealing again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch_egg Posted December 31, 2022 Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 it’s the 30lb race guns that does it does for me. although Tom Rice did rather well with his factory Tikka Varmint on his first time out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean c Posted December 31, 2022 Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 3 hours ago, Ronin said: Send it Series comps in Scotland are £60 entry That includes being fed lunch and water So matches don’t have to cost silly money On a different note It would be nice if someone would provide a match that’s moves away from the precision rifle “bench rest” type comp where a 30lb non recoiling rifle and a gaym changer bag are mandatory ,,,,,,, Find it, range it, shoot it, much more appealing - natural obstacles or features rather than “same old barricades” Would appeal to many people and create a level playing field Completely agree on both points. SiS is a good price and the type of comp you mention is much more appealing. Flashes of the UKV shoot at WMS come to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlts Posted December 31, 2022 Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 4 hours ago, Scotch_egg said: Hunter class in the states deals with this. NRL Hunter is great, I'd love to have a run out with my 10lb stalking rifle. There's nothing stopping anyone shooting against open class shooters with anything, look how well young Lucas did with my 223 at the summer SIS when he was totally out gunned and at his first match. Who really cares what or where people shoot, as long as they're shooting. Merry New Year UKV, I definitely plan to shoot even more in 2023! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch_egg Posted January 1, 2023 Report Share Posted January 1, 2023 2 hours ago, Charlts said: NRL Hunter is great, I'd love to have a run out with my 10lb stalking rifle. There's nothing stopping anyone shooting against open class shooters with anything, look how well young Lucas did with my 223 at the summer SIS when he was totally out gunned and at his first match. Who really cares what or where people shoot, as long as they're shooting. Merry New Year UKV, I definitely plan to shoot even more in 2023! To be honest that’s a very fair comment. who cares what you bring. Just shoot and enjoy it. although some of the comps have become a little too obscure with their obstacles and time limits. keep it simple. Encourage easier targets for greater rounds on target for the less practiced. Hits on target create bigger smiles. Not everyone has the time to practice and these comps are often the only opportunity to shoot off their bellies. The pro’s course of fire needs to be different from the “also rans” just MHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCalleja91 Posted January 1, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2023 4 hours ago, Scotch_egg said: To be honest that’s a very fair comment. who cares what you bring. Just shoot and enjoy it. although some of the comps have become a little too obscure with their obstacles and time limits. keep it simple. Encourage easier targets for greater rounds on target for the less practiced. Hits on target create bigger smiles. Not everyone has the time to practice and these comps are often the only opportunity to shoot off their bellies. The pro’s course of fire needs to be different from the “also rans” just MHO. Or maybe even instead of different courses of fire just have a larger and a smaller plate on each stage for the amateurs and the pro's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangbangman Posted January 1, 2023 Report Share Posted January 1, 2023 Different CoF for "pros" and "amateurs" could be a logistical nightmare as the stages are run at a pace to get everyone through and minimise standing around. If the stage time limit was the only difference on it could work, but a but of a headache for the RO. The small and big gong idea has been tried (shooter had to nominate size before starting, and stick with it: double points for the small gong.) However, doubling the number of targets increases cost, set up time and complexity. Possible, though. Factory class goes some way toward reducing the arms-race effect of open class. Similarly "limited" (223/308) class. I think Hunter class would be a good idea; I used to use my 308Win Stalking rifle for PRS type shooting and had great fun despite needing to do a mag change on every stage. As someone said above, Tom Rice won (I think) with a factory Tikka not that long ago, so I'd encourage anyone interested in PRS to try it with what they've got, before building a dedicated rifle. Kit like bags/tripods etc is freely lent on the firing point, so again, don't buy stuff before you've tried it. I'd certainly welcome cheaper matches and more venues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted January 1, 2023 Report Share Posted January 1, 2023 The extreme version of SIS held last year was probably the most fun competition I’ve attended outside the Czech and Slovakian military comps That could be used as a bench mark to create something in the UK that would appeal to all im not sure there are any professional competition shooters over here - solely employed to shoot - the pond here is tiny compared to the USA where there are - the recent comps attended by the “top” Uk shooters in the states has I think put things into perspective bringing a few “back to earth” The UK has only 150 thousand firearm certificate holders - of those maybe one percent or less attend steep plate matches From my own perspective there has been a reduction in attendance to matches in the last two years for a variety of reasons (cost, in fighting, loss of interest, etc ) There is reduced chat on forums about match attendance - another indicator of waining interest Time for things to be shaken up and changed to something that appeals to more people rather than the few create something that can grow and involve more people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangbangman Posted January 1, 2023 Report Share Posted January 1, 2023 22 minutes ago, Ronin said: The extreme version of SIS held last year was probably the most fun competition I’ve attended outside the Czech and Slovakian military comps That could be used as a bench mark to create something in the UK that would appeal to all im not sure there are any professional competition shooters over here - solely employed to shoot - the pond here is tiny compared to the USA where there are - the recent comps attended by the “top” Uk shooters in the states has I think put things into perspective bringing a few “back to earth” The UK has only 150 thousand firearm certificate holders - of those maybe one percent or less attend steep plate matches From my own perspective there has been a reduction in attendance to matches in the last two years for a variety of reasons (cost, in fighting, loss of interest, etc ) There is reduced chat on forums about match attendance - another indicator of waining interest Time for things to be shaken up and changed to something that appeals to more people rather than the few create something that can grow and involve more people I'd also welcome variety, though I think the PRS format allows for this, to an extent. I've never had to design a CoF so I may be underestimating the challenges. You might enjoy the upcoming "Extreme" match at ProShoot. I think it may a three gunmatch but involves a physical element (belly crawl under wire, aerial runway etc have been mentioned.) I think the endurance element in the hike-and-shoot might put off as many people as it attracts, though I'm keen to try this type of shoot. You can't please all the people all of the time and I think the PRS matches are well attended, with new shooters turning up and enjoying themselves. Personally, I don't have the time and monet to practice and get compete with the top guns but I enjoy the challenge and it's certainly improved my field shooting for quarry. PR22/NRL22UK comps are an easy and cheap way into the sport, which will hopefully expand to include more venues, given the smaller facilities required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlts Posted January 1, 2023 Report Share Posted January 1, 2023 6 hours ago, Scotch_egg said: To be honest that’s a very fair comment. who cares what you bring. Just shoot and enjoy it. although some of the comps have become a little too obscure with their obstacles and time limits. keep it simple. Encourage easier targets for greater rounds on target for the less practiced. Hits on target create bigger smiles. Not everyone has the time to practice and these comps are often the only opportunity to shoot off their bellies. The pro’s course of fire needs to be different from the “also rans” just MHO. 100%, on targets and props. My personal opinion is the top score wants to be 90-95%, courses should be set for the mid pack guys to be able to enjoy themselves and for new shooters be able to hit around 50%. This presents different challenges to everyone, the top guys have to make each shot count and it provides enough of a challenge to keep things interesting for the bulk of shooters. Let’s face it there’s a lot more people in it for the craic than are in it to win it. The lazy way to set a PRS course is to have wobbley props and small targets. The C2 Bisley match got that mix right, props were solid and target size appropriate. The PRS U.K. team got that mix right all through 2022. I look forward to seeing more of the same this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlts Posted January 1, 2023 Report Share Posted January 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Ronin said: The extreme version of SIS held last year was probably the most fun competition I’ve attended outside the Czech and Slovakian military comps That could be used as a bench mark to create something in the UK that would appeal to all im not sure there are any professional competition shooters over here - solely employed to shoot - the pond here is tiny compared to the USA where there are - the recent comps attended by the “top” Uk shooters in the states has I think put things into perspective bringing a few “back to earth” The UK has only 150 thousand firearm certificate holders - of those maybe one percent or less attend steep plate matches From my own perspective there has been a reduction in attendance to matches in the last two years for a variety of reasons (cost, in fighting, loss of interest, etc ) There is reduced chat on forums about match attendance - another indicator of waining interest Time for things to be shaken up and changed to something that appeals to more people rather than the few create something that can grow and involve more people I’ve seen quite the opposite on numbers Andy, every match this year I’ve squadded with a first time shooter who’s come back and shot other events afterwards. I’ve had more conversations about starting shooting Precision Rifle last year than the year before and have seen the formation of ladies PRS group prepping for next year as well. What would you start that’s different to shake things up? The dynamic SIS wasn’t for me, for various reasons. It looked like everyone had fun whilst I was RO’ing and I recall you increased the numbers of your teddy collection. I predict 2023 will be busier again as there’s already 8 centrefire matches in the calendar and all being well at least one rimfire match per month! Personally I plan to get to as many different places as possible and shoot even more than before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcampbellsmith Posted January 1, 2023 Report Share Posted January 1, 2023 9 minutes ago, Charlts said: I’ve seen quite the opposite on numbers Andy, every match this year I’ve squadded with a first time shooter who’s come back and shot other events afterwards. I’ve had more conversations about starting shooting Precision Rifle last year than the year before and have seen the formation of ladies PRS group prepping for next year as well. What would you start that’s different to shake things up? The dynamic SIS wasn’t for me, for various reasons. It looked like everyone had fun whilst I was RO’ing and I recall you increased the numbers of your teddy collection. I predict 2023 will be busier again as there’s already 8 centrefire matches in the calendar and all being well at least one rimfire match per month! Personally I plan to get to as many different places as possible and shoot even more than before. Two things jump out - Introduction of a class for stalking rifles. Publishing the calendar of events - I've already got events in my calendar through to October this year. I've no idea when PRS is happening. Regards JCS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted January 1, 2023 Report Share Posted January 1, 2023 That’s good to hear Ryan Barricade Benchrest isn’t for everyone - and the trend (need) for heavy recoiless rifles and bag to do well does put many off from entering I too speak to quite a few people and this is the common theme in preventing them starting natural features used as barricades instead of the usual and dull props making people think about position, acquisition of target (having to find it in an area) range it or mil it and then engage it makes a fun and more realistic approach to a comp that would broaden the appeal This format would appeal wider spectrum of shooter (stalkers and foxibg lads for instance ) using what they have instead of the necessity for “race guns” I do take your point about the young lad who did well at Sis but there’s no denying that there was quite intense coaching going on - to assist that achievement I’m not complaining about that it was good to see and hear someone with so much talent - (that’s you by the way) giving something back to the sport The match providers could widen the appeal easily by adopting something similar to what I’m proposing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlts Posted January 1, 2023 Report Share Posted January 1, 2023 1 minute ago, jcampbellsmith said: Two things jump out - Introduction of a class for stalking rifles. Publishing the calendar of events - I've already got events in my calendar through to October this year. I've no idea when PRS is happening. Regards JCS Like an NRL Hunter class with weight limits and a power factor? I’d like that, would it be possible to shoot race gun and stalking rifle at the same time? The PRS U.K. match calendar is on the PRS U.K. website. https://www.precisionrifleseries-uk.com/matches/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted January 1, 2023 Report Share Posted January 1, 2023 5 minutes ago, jcampbellsmith said: Publishing the calendar of events - I've already got events in my calendar through to October this year. I've no idea when PRS is happening. Regards JCS I proposed this a couple of years ago (within this forum) and approached the match providers then for dates of events The only one to respond at that time was SIS… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlts Posted January 1, 2023 Report Share Posted January 1, 2023 3 minutes ago, Ronin said: That’s good to hear Ryan Barricade Benchrest isn’t for everyone - and the trend (need) for heavy recoiless rifles and bag to do well does put many off from entering I too speak to quite a few people and this is the common theme in preventing them starting natural features used as barricades instead of the usual and dull props making people think about position, acquisition of target (having to find it in an area) range it or mil it and then engage it makes a fun and more realistic approach to a comp that would broaden the appeal This format would appeal wider spectrum of shooter (stalkers and foxibg lads for instance ) using what they have instead of the necessity for “race guns” I do take your point about the young lad who did well at Sis but there’s no denying that there was quite intense coaching going on - to assist that achievement I’m not complaining about that it was good to see and hear someone with so much talent - (that’s you by the way) giving something back to the sport The match providers could widen the appeal easily by adopting something similar to what I’m proposing Sign me up, it sounds like fun! The biggest thing that appeals to me with the NRL Hunter series is the opportunity to master a lightweight rifle with a high power factor. That would be something to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brushy Posted January 1, 2023 Report Share Posted January 1, 2023 Regarding race rigs and the gear race putting off new starters. I think that there is a fundamental issue here which is being missed…. the best way to measure success and improvement is against yourself (only). Questions like: Did I built good positions, was my wobble within the target, did I make good wind calls, was every trigger press perfect. These are questions which any shooter should ask themselves and not ‘where did I place on the leaderboard’. If the later question is the determinant of whether a shooter comes back to another event, they will always struggle. There are a huge number of variables to where shooters do well at a match and many are outside of personal control (wind, shooter order on a stage, spotter calls etc). Personally, I like the idea of a hunter comp and would definitely like to give this a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted January 1, 2023 Report Share Posted January 1, 2023 Many people who are interested in shooting steel in comps are put off by the necessity (or perceived necessity) to have high end kit (heavy race gun and bags) Trigger control, wind calls, building position is something that’s done by everyone who’s using a rifle at any distance (they are absolutely necessary fundamentals ) Not many are interested in achieving a high score or winning - they would (like myself) rather compete and have fun whilst doing so without being pressured Spotter calls - should be two spotters per stage whos decision is final and whom should not be approached or barracked into calling something that didn’t happen 👍🏻 Have to say that this is the most discussion into steel plate comps on any forum or social media platform (UK) for many months Refreshing to see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brave Echo niner Posted January 1, 2023 Report Share Posted January 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Charlts said: Sign me up, it sounds like fun! The biggest thing that appeals to me with the NRL Hunter series is the opportunity to master a lightweight rifle with a high power factor. That would be something to consider. My concern having looked at the NRL hunter rules and regulations would be the definition of what is a "hunting rifle". I can speak for myself and a few others I stalk with in saying most of our "lightweight" rifles for woodland work are coming in at 13-15lb all in, with hill rifles ranging from 15-22lbs, this would mean by their definition most of us couldn't use our true stalking rifles due to being overweight with them? To me the SIS Dynamic was a perfect mix where people can use anything they deem fit but were limited by practicality of carrying and overall fitness, it certainly made you consider what kit you actually need rather than just want? I thoroughly enjoyed the dynamic and know from speaking to Helen and Marc they have big plans for it going forwards, pushing that alternative style of practical match. I will certainly be clearing my diary to shoot it! Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlts Posted January 1, 2023 Report Share Posted January 1, 2023 24 minutes ago, brave Echo niner said: My concern having looked at the NRL hunter rules and regulations would be the definition of what is a "hunting rifle". I can speak for myself and a few others I stalk with in saying most of our "lightweight" rifles for woodland work are coming in at 13-15lb all in, with hill rifles ranging from 15-22lbs, this would mean by their definition most of us couldn't use our true stalking rifles due to being overweight with them? To me the SIS Dynamic was a perfect mix where people can use anything they deem fit but were limited by practicality of carrying and overall fitness, it certainly made you consider what kit you actually need rather than just want? I thoroughly enjoyed the dynamic and know from speaking to Helen and Marc they have big plans for it going forwards, pushing that alternative style of practical match. I will certainly be clearing my diary to shoot it! Ben It was created to counter the “heavy, barricade bench rest, race gun” point that’s been brought up repeatedly on this thread. Let’s not kid ourselves that NRL Hunter isn’t as much of a gear race as every other competitive shooting discipline. The best shooters will always be the best shooters because they work at it. What makes a 15-22lb hill rifle different to a 15-22lb barricade bench gun? I know I’m not alone in shooting deer or other critters with a race rifle. Of the top 5 in the PRS U.K. last year all of our rifles fit that weight bracket. I hope there’s more dynamics, I’d like a go if my knee will hold up after the surgery, if not I’ll gladly RO again. Then the people giving up time so that I can shoot matches, are able to take part in matches they enjoy. I saw lots of gear taken for a walk at the dynamic. Having watched it and understanding how to efficiently shoot things. I’d pack lightweight rifle, triple pull, game changer, tripod, binos, kestrel, water and snacks. Which would only mean dropping the spotting scope from my regular kit list. Locate and range targets from the game changer on top of the tripod - Build a range card with binos and kestrel linked. Deploy triple pull, use tripod or pack for rear support and engage. The best game plan is always to keep things simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted January 1, 2023 Report Share Posted January 1, 2023 I wasn’t necessarily looking at the NRL hunter class rules My thoughts would be carry what you’ve brought between stages and each stage is blind with a reasonable time constraint - with natural obstacle to test problem solving to get the shots off Targets in a set area to locate, range and shoot in that time makes for more interesting c o f It doesn’t have to be weight restricted for class You Coukd impose mandatory mag changes at three rounds to avoid those with large capacity an advantage - there could also be mandatory position change after x y Z rounds on target too Im trying to make it appealing to more shooters and grow the entire sport - not one particular facet or group The content of my posts are not criticising any group either, it’s trying to develop and grow from what we have now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlanda Posted January 1, 2023 Report Share Posted January 1, 2023 2 hours ago, Ronin said: Many people who are interested in shooting steel in comps are put off by the necessity (or perceived necessity) to have high end kit (heavy race gun and bags) Trigger control, wind calls, building position is something that’s done by everyone who’s using a rifle at any distance (they are absolutely necessary fundamentals ) Not many are interested in achieving a high score or winning - they would (like myself) rather compete and have fun whilst doing so without being pressured Spotter calls - should be two spotters per stage whos decision is final and whom should not be approached or barracked into calling something that didn’t happen 👍🏻 Have to say that this is the most discussion into steel plate comps on any forum or social media platform (UK) for many months Refreshing to see +1 Totally agree with you here and previous comment. This applies to 22NRL or whatever its called. This is the reason why a base class (like our good friends in USA) is required. Working within parameters levels the playing fields and results reflect ability and not equipment. Most importantly it should be enjoyable. Unlikely to be enough support for additional classes, so 'wanna tryers' are put off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlts Posted January 1, 2023 Report Share Posted January 1, 2023 4 minutes ago, Ronin said: I wasn’t necessarily looking at the NRL hunter class rules My thoughts would be carry what you’ve brought between stages and each stage is blind with a reasonable time constraint - with natural obstacle to test problem solving to get the shots off Targets in a set area to locate, range and shoot in that time makes for more interesting c o f It doesn’t have to be weight restricted for class You Coukd impose mandatory mag changes at three rounds to avoid those with large capacity an advantage - there could also be mandatory position change after x y Z rounds on target too Im trying to make it appealing to more shooters and grow the entire sport - not one particular facet or group The content of my posts are not criticising any group either, it’s trying to develop and grow from what we have now Build it and they’ll come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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