Longer range bullet for AI .308 26" barrel 1-12 twist.

[Aris]

Been using Sierra 175 Match King - and they've been OK to 600.  I've also shot 155gr 2155's with similar results to 300.

I will very occasionally shoot 1000 with my club.

Problem is - i'm running out - and there are no stocks in the UK - and would like to have a plan B bullet (perhaps even plan C).  I kind of like the idea of using a European one - like a Lapua which might have better availability in the future (perhaps i'm being naive).

Does anyone have any practical experience in what will work?  I'm using V140 - but am open to changing to a different powder if it gives the desired results.

Anyone using the Scenars like the 185?  The berger bullet stabilisation app says 1.50 - "stable" assuming I can get it to 2650 (seems unlikely for such a heavy bullet) but right on the cusp.

At the end - only real world experience matters though - so if anyone could recommend something other than a 175 or 155 SMK which works in an AI 308 barrel - much appreciated!

 

 

[Catch-22]

The Lapua Scenar 185gn is a dog, as aerodynamic as a brick. I think Laurie wrote some of findings after some some of his own testing.

But the Lapua Scenar 155s are great. They’ll work well with N140.

Even the old 190gn SMK is still a good bullet for long range work.

Also try MME bullets. Peter is a true gent and his Wimbledon Match (similar to a SMK) are really good. I’ve yet to try his Mistrel (similar to a Berger Hybrid) but those who’ve used them say they’re supposed to be good.

[Aris]

5 minutes ago, Catch-22 said:

The Lapua Scenar 185gn is a dog, as aerodynamic as a brick. I think Laurie wrote some of findings after some some of his own testing.

But the Lapua Scenar 155s are great. They’ll work well with N140.

Even the old 190gn SMK is still a good bullet for long range work.

Also try MME bullets. Peter is a true gent and his Wimbledon Match (similar to a SMK) are really good. I’ve yet to try his Mistrel (similar to a Berger Hybrid) but those who’ve used them say they’re supposed to be good.

A dog?  Might explain why they are still available to buy.

Any idea how much these MME bullets cost?  Don't see any info on the website.

[Catch-22]

Contact Peter and he can give you prices, depending on type of bullet, calibre, weight and quantity.

[No i deer]

Ashcroft has some 168gr Amaxs that will do you..

When I had a 308 I found them really accurate 

[ds1]

Personally I use a Berger 155gr  hybrids but in an AWP 24” 1 in 12 factory barrel. I have little expectation that they  will be supersonic much past 800m. 

Anything within reason at 300 to 600 yards can  work well eg Scenar’s don’t have the best bc but are very consistent. At 1000 yards (more so 1000m) is going to be a very difficult challenge out a of a 26” tube.

This is an article I found on Geoff Kolbe’s  webpage some time ago ( he’s on ukv ). Helps to appreciate the issues:

http://www.geoffrey-kolbe.com/articles/art1.htm

[Popsbengo]

I use 155 Lapua Scenario in a 24" 1:11 twist.  43.5gr Viht 140.  Good to 900 at Bisley last week.  Struggled a bit at 1000yd.

[Richiew]

Berger 175 LRBT , 185 juggernauts, 175 OTM . Hornady 178 eldms all with 44.5 grains of n150 work well upto 700 m . Ok upto 900 but struggled at 1000 . 24” AI AT 1:12” barrel. 

[No i deer]

Forget looking for berger bullets...

Rocking horse poo would be easier too find..

185gr juggs would be your best alround bullet but you won't find many if any..!!

An ELDM's with there ballistic tip will serve you well..

Amaxs will too..

 

 

[ds1]

No i deer…… how do you find the Eldm’s  for being ‘fussy’ in 308?  Only asking because I use the Eldm’s 285grn in 338 ( excellent bc to weight ratio) but in a couple of barrels they do not shoot as well as Scenars which are easy to tune.

[Popsbengo]

21 minutes ago, ds1 said:

No i deer…… how do you find the Eldm’s  for being ‘fussy’ in 308?  Only asking because I use the Eldm’s 285grn in 338 ( excellent bc to weight ratio) but in a couple of barrels they do not shoot as well as Scenars which are easy to tune.

I have found ELD-Ms unusable in my .308 even after much faffing around but I have used them in .338 like you and they are almost as good as the Lapua 300 Scenar.

[No i deer]

1 hour ago, ds1 said:

No i deer…… how do you find the Eldm’s  for being ‘fussy’ in 308?  Only asking because I use the Eldm’s 285grn in 338 ( excellent bc to weight ratio) but in a couple of barrels they do not shoot as well as Scenars which are easy to tune.

I've not had a 308 since the ELDM's come out..

I can tell you that the 7mm 180gr eldms are very accurate but my saum has blown a few up..

I've tried lots of different Amax bullet of various calibre and found them all excellent..

[Catch-22]

I’ve shot a couple of hundred 285gn ELDM in my .338 and they were ‘ok’ - nothing special.

But the 300gn Scenars are simply one hole-ers.

[Aris]

On 5/26/2022 at 1:48 PM, Catch-22 said:

Contact Peter and he can give you prices, depending on type of bullet, calibre, weight and quantity.

Spoke with him at the Phoenix trade fair at Bisley today.  Seems to know his stuff and very open to suggestions and custom requests.  For instance he will do 20 bullets in various weights and sizes for testing purposes.

in my case, he said his 155 .30 cal is roughly the equivalent of a Sierra 2156 and his 175 a Sierra match king of the same weight.

Prices - not bad at all!  £41 per hundred for the above.   He seems to take pride in batching his work and keeping statistics and samples from each batch made.  
 

Gonna give it a go - over time.  I managed to find Sierra 175’s - so have enough for the time being.  Also got some 155 Scenar L’s - which are also supposed to be a 2156 equivalent.  They too could be “plan B”

[VarmLR]

Worth bearing in mind that Sierra availability is sketchy presently and not likely to get much better into the near future.  If Phoenix at Bisley has sufficient stocks of their bullets then that's well worth a shout.  More readily available than Sierra seems to be the Hornady or Lapua bullets.  The Hornady ELD Match in 155 or 178gr should be a good shout, the 178 definitely a decent BC contender for 100 yds.

[NICK]

Hi Aris.

Fwiw, Brownells UK are showing plenty ( 10 ) of 500 count boxes of 175 matchking in stock in the US. MATCHKING BULLETS SIERRA BULLETS, INC. 30 CALIBER (0.308") 175GR HOLLOW POINT BOAT TAIL 500/BOX - Brownells UK

7-10 days delivery. 

Apologies if you are already aware of these. 

[Ralpharama]

On 5/26/2022 at 5:55 PM, ds1 said:

Personally I use a Berger 155gr  hybrids but in an AWP 24” 1 in 12 factory barrel. I have little expectation that they  will be supersonic much past 800m. 

Anything within reason at 300 to 600 yards can  work well eg Scenar’s don’t have the best bc but are very consistent. At 1000 yards (more so 1000m) is going to be a very difficult challenge out a of a 26” tube.

This is an article I found on Geoff Kolbe’s  webpage some time ago ( he’s on ukv ). Helps to appreciate the issues:

http://www.geoffrey-kolbe.com/articles/art1.htm

That was a very interesting article

[VarmLR]

I've always found Sierra smk 190's superb at 1000 yds from my 24 inch 1/11 Tikka.  Very tolerant through transonic so you really don't need to push thyem harder than 2450 to 2500fps.  I also tried the TMK 175's but they were no better and if anything, not as predictable in wind despite the slight BC advantage.

 

[Popsbengo]

Going back to your original question, a 1:12 twist is going to struggle to stabilise a 185gr bullet.

As far as Lapua Scenar 185gr being 'a dog' they work fine at 600yds and as 155gr are difficult to find, and more expensive, I'll take those hounds for a walk at middling distances, and save the Berger 185gr jugs for 1000yds. (thanks CG for selling me Unicorn Poo at a very fair price).

[JCalleja91]

So ive been wondering the same thing for my .308 24" 1/12 twist AI AT, only I use factory ammo.

From what I've read the 178gr Hornady ELDM BTHP should be fine? Right? That's what I was using in my Tikka Tac A1 before I upgraded and that was only based on it grouped best at 100m compared to the other factory rounds I tried.. which wasn't many.

I've always wondered what the difference was between the BTHP and the ones with the red plastic tip (from a quick google i think these are the AMax youve mentioned?)... is one inheritantly more consistent than the other? 

Any other factory loads you'd recommend? 

So far I've tried the 178gr ELDM BTHP, 155gr Superformance International and some S&B 155gr cheap ammo which i used to zero, break in and plink at 100m. 

Unfortunately my RFD doesn't really stock anything else so I'd have to request them order in something else for me.. hence I'd like a good steer in the right direction so I'm not constantly asking them to order in different rounds.

[geek]

I used to use Berger 185 Juggernauts in my AI AT 308 (26 inch barrel), but when they became unavailable I have been using  Lapa 185s. However, as said above, struggled at 1000 yards (wouldn't register on the electronic targets [using 45 grs of Viht N150]). Therefore, went to 6.5 Creedmoor for longer distances and will use the 308 for medium distances.

[Richiew]

These should be good to 600 m  in stock at Dauntsey guns . The same version in 155 or 178grain eldms are also good from my AI AT . Don’t buy ppu standard but their match version might be worth a go . 

[JCalleja91]

Nice thanks. 

What about for 800-900? I hoping to give PRS a try this year and from what I can tell that's the max distance they have targets at.

[Richiew]

On 5/26/2022 at 10:23 AM, Aris said:

Been using Sierra 175 Match King - and they've been OK to 600.  I've also shot 155gr 2155's with similar results to 300.

I will very occasionally shoot 1000 with my club.

Problem is - i'm running out - and there are no stocks in the UK - and would like to have a plan B bullet (perhaps even plan C).  I kind of like the idea of using a European one - like a Lapua which might have better availability in the future (perhaps i'm being naive).

Does anyone have any practical experience in what will work?  I'm using V140 - but am open to changing to a different powder if it gives the desired results.

Anyone using the Scenars like the 185?  The berger bullet stabilisation app says 1.50 - "stable" assuming I can get it to 2650 (seems unlikely for such a heavy bullet) but right on the cusp.

At the end - only real world experience matters though - so if anyone could recommend something other than a 175 or 155 SMK which works in an AI 308 barrel - much appreciated!

 

 

AI AT 26” barrel 44.5 grain N150 for jugs and the eldms and the 175 OTM Berger . Hope this helps 

[Richiew]

th ease are 308 178 eldx same ish as eldm but these are the expanding ones. Might be worth a try. Cheers