simonl Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 I bought my first centrefire rifle, a Remington SPS 204 with a sporter barrel, a few years ago via Guntrader. Some chap who ran a wool shop said he preferred his other 204. I stuck a Bushnell scope on it & struggled to get better than 2.5 inch groups @100yds with occasional flyers/pulled shots well outside that. I zeroed as best as I could. My first shot at quarry obliterated a magpie at 185yards - wow! Short lived elations though; I missed a rabbit at 80 yards and a fox at 150. This was all with factory ammunition, Hornady 40gr & 32gr. I concluded that I really wasn't much of a shot. Box after box of Hornady never really got me any closer to a conclusion, other than maybe full-bore wasn't for me. I kept going with just an HMR quite successfully. After a couple of years I bought a 223 Remington (sucker for punishment eh?) VSSF & stuck a Swarovski 6-24 x 50 on it. With some reloading help I got sub MOA consistently. I now had a baseline against which I could go back to the 204... Having read just how bad the SPS stock is, I picked up a replacement second hand stock. I think it's HS precision. Varmint barrel profile so no doubt about clearance there. Tatty but functional. Same old thing. A couple of capable shots tried it too. At 100 yds you need A3 paper to see all the shots! A4 just doesn't cut it! In summary I've tried:- Different scope Different mounts Different stock Everything checked for tightness & alignment by numerous people, inc gunsmiths Crown okay (for a factory Remington) With mod or without, no tangible difference Different bloke behind it Bipod vs bag vs wing mirror Cleaning it with every lotion/potion in existence Torqued everything appropriately …All to no avail. Has anyone ever come across this much of a dog of a rifle? Keen to hear suggestions as to what the best next step could be, ideally without sinking into a debate about 204 vs whatever calibre you might think is better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 You need you get it bore scoped Take it to a decent rifle smith - sounds like an issue with the barrel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 I feel for you , PC has had a couple of bad remmys , i seen a customers remmy in 17 fb - it wouldn't shoot ? It was at a local smiths for him to try and cheak out ! He couldn't find a fault ! There are bad ones out there , unfortunately this sounds like you got one . Re-barrel or P-X with something else ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finman Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Moral of the story: don't buy Rmngggg....remingggggg...nah, can't even say it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palo Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 My mate had the same problem with a new howa 308. He spent a fortune trying different loads, bought a new stock and got it bedded but still no luck. He traded it for a new tikka which shot great from day one. Dont waste anymore time or money on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pork chop Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 only way to sort it is to rebarrel or get rid i put a new barrel on mine in 204 shoots great now.dont know if it true but was told by rifle smith that Remington barrels cost in the region of $11 i wouldn't touch one again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylan5588 Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 You need you get it bore scoped Take it to a decent rifle smith - sounds like an issue with the barrel I had this problem with a supposedly new rifle, A .22 Hornet it wouldn't group under 5" no matter what i done, this was my first firearm, so put it down to my shooting, a few months after buying it i was in the market for a .22 rimfire, i mentioned my problem to the rfd i was buying the rimfire from, he had a look at the hornet with a borescope and informed me my "New" Hornets barrel was badly pitted!! I wont go into the drawn out procedure with the rfd i purchased the Hornet from, but after Edgar Brothers sorted it out for me and had it rebarreled, it shot and still does under 1" with any ammunition i feed it. Moral of the tale don't rely on anything being what the seller tells you, have it checked out. With borescope! Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srvet Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 I bought a hardly used Rem 700 VS years ago that had a duff barrel. There was evidence of the reamer chattering and marking the rifling just in front of the chamber. I sold it on but latterly wished I had rebarreled. But I was young and foolish then... ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visiter1 Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 rebarrel it or maybe get the chamber recut again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 only way to sort it is to rebarrel or get rid i put a new barrel on mine in 204 shoots great now.dont know if it true but was told by rifle smith that Remington barrels cost in the region of $11 i wouldn't touch one again Me too , i asked about replacing a stainless varmint remmy barrel , it was $30 dollars ffs ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pork chop Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 Me too , i asked about replacing a stainless varmint remmy barrel , it was $30 dollars ffs ! like everything made to a price ,im amazed that they produce any that shoot well (i know they do because ive had one)but one out of three just isnt good enough for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldon Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 I have a 308 Remington that I like so I'm not a Remmy knocker. However I have a Tikka 204 and that is great. As previously said don't waste any more money if this rifles a dog. Hand load a few options and if none are good chop it in for a Tikka super varmint as I would highly recommend them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonl Posted November 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 Update: Out of curiosity I made up some home loads using 32gr Vmax & the Hornady cases from the useless factory ammo. I also gave it a good clean with CR2 At night from a Discovery bonnet (closest equivalent is a trampolene) with 15kt winds I shot about a 1.5" 5 shot group - something it's never been capable of previously. I wish I hadn't cleaned it & only introduced changes individually, but at least there's some light at the end of the barrel... Will do some more investigation now that it's feeling much less futile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 Better news,indeed. Problem with the trampolene is,like the wind,sometimes it bounces them in,rather than out! But 'good clean helped' picks up on earlier suggestions-small calibre barrels can copper up-or worse-quite a bit,and you have no way of knowing if it was properly cleaned before. Very few clean factory barrels are anywhere near so bad. A borescope would have been advisable,of course. I'd get it decoppered and decarboned with some hope of at least acceptable performance .Such horror stories happened with the Swift,then the 17 rem.....both pretty fast numbers-usually it was poor cleaning-and barrels are better now than back then.Fingers crossed,lots of copper remover. gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Pimp Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 Not worth spending £600-700 to re-barrel a rifle worth half that amount - so the best option as gbal suggests, is a good clean. Wouldn't surprise me if its never been cleaned properly! But, if this is your first centrefire rifle, maybe you need to get someone to show you how to clean it. I would guess it's well coppered-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonl Posted November 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 Not worth spending £600-700 to re-barrel a rifle worth half that amount - so the best option as gbal suggests, is a good clean. Wouldn't surprise me if its never been cleaned properly! But, if this is your first centrefire rifle, maybe you need to get someone to show you how to clean it. I would guess it's well coppered-up. It *was* my first centrefire, but I've been running a couple of larger calibers for quite some time now & had no problems. I've got a cheapo USB borescope but it won't fit down a 204 barrel, so I'm working in the unknown slightly. I had previously de-coppered it several times, using a aluminium jag & kept going until there was no hint of blue. I certainly believed it was clean. Maybe all the variables were coinciding to act in my favour, as gbal suggests, but another 5 shot group should establish that with a reasonable level of confidence. I do at least feel it's worth pursuing. I'm reluctant to jump to conclusions, but it does seem to point towards A.) I don't know how to clean a gun, or didn't know & still might not. B.) It hates Hornady factory ammunition I can live with either of those outcomes, or maybe both. I'll get to a conclusion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 If (more) cleaning don't do it,then obviously try a differrnt diet-you might be able to get some Remington,Winchester,Federal or Nosler,or of course,homeloads.......one lot of factory might just be poor QC too- you might be able to ask if anyone else had problems with it. Any signs of bullets tumbling/odd shape holes on the target? It's unlikely that a differnt make would also be so poor...as you say,try a few more good condition groups.....it can't rain forever! g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanner Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 I bought my first centrefire rifle, a Remington SPS 204 with a sporter barrel, a few years ago via Guntrader. Some chap who ran a wool shop said he preferred his other 204. I stuck a Bushnell scope on it & struggled to get better than 2.5 inch groups @100yds with occasional flyers/pulled shots well outside that. I zeroed as best as I could. My first shot at quarry obliterated a magpie at 185yards - wow! Short lived elations though; I missed a rabbit at 80 yards and a fox at 150. This was all with factory ammunition, Hornady 40gr & 32gr. I concluded that I really wasn't much of a shot. Box after box of Hornady never really got me any closer to a conclusion, other than maybe full-bore wasn't for me. I kept going with just an HMR quite successfully. After a couple of years I bought a 223 Remington (sucker for punishment eh?) VSSF & stuck a Swarovski 6-24 x 50 on it. With some reloading help I got sub MOA consistently. I now had a baseline against which I could go back to the 204... Having read just how bad the SPS stock is, I picked up a replacement second hand stock. I think it's HS precision. Varmint barrel profile so no doubt about clearance there. Tatty but functional. Same old thing. A couple of capable shots tried it too. At 100 yds you need A3 paper to see all the shots! A4 just doesn't cut it! In summary I've tried:- Different scope Different mounts Different stock Everything checked for tightness & alignment by numerous people, inc gunsmiths Crown okay (for a factory Remington) With mod or without, no tangible difference Different bloke behind it Bipod vs bag vs wing mirror Cleaning it with every lotion/potion in existence Torqued everything appropriately …All to no avail. Has anyone ever come across this much of a dog of a rifle? Keen to hear suggestions as to what the best next step could be, ideally without sinking into a debate about 204 vs whatever calibre you might think is better! I had just the same with a 204 Howa Varmint I bought SH. It took me ages to get to the bottom of it as it would put 2 shots on each other then throw the next three anywhere no matter what I tried cleaning wise, torque settings etc etc. I had NV on it a Pulsar 750 with doubler so at first thought it was the doubler screwing things. I eventually put a large mag day scope on it and tried it with Hornday 32, 40 & the same in Remmy and it just wouldn't shoot consistently. Had it rebarreled by Neil McKillop with a 1 in 10 22 inch Pacnor tube and it turned it into a fabulous rifle, totally consistent and very very accurate with factory ammo. There was nothing wrong I could see it was just a bad one. It would put me off buying a SH CF without shooting it first, mine came from the other end of the country so not an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brickhill Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 Very annoying when you can't get a proper grouping. My Tikka .204 is a tack driver with Hornady Superformance 32g V-max. 40g almost as good. $11 USD for a barrel. They can't be any good can they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 This thread actually popped into my head earlier at work , and i thought -whats the fella going to do ? If moneys tight and couldn't afford rebarrel then id at least have borescope especially at the muzzle end . It seems ridiculous an A3 sheet is needed , there must be some bad crown or rifle/groove damage or even missing near the muzzle end especially as its like a flippin shotgun ! Then i thought about donation towards a chosen smith to try and make it possible for the fella . Id donate 20 quid towards it anyone else ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonl Posted November 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 That's very kind, and thank you, but not necessary, for several reasons. I've made quite reasonable progress seemingly as a result of either cleaning, or using home loads. I don't know which yet. I was at the point of accepting defeat but now I'm keen to determine what the issue was. I could afford to rebarrel/replace etc but then I'd be beaten by it. That's not my style! I'll get so such more satisfaction by proving beyond doubt where the issue lies - and posting to maybe be useful to someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.jpg.0972b4e2bdf0b5a4109eb96f2b1b62ad.jpg)
(200x135).jpg.0fd0a94f065c6cb243fdff1b40e0819a.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.