Gunsmith Euro or USA?

[Ronin]

Ive started this topic so people may post about the european vs USA gunsmith issues that have been raised in the Roedale Precision thread.

 

This way the threads remain focussed on the matters in hand

[Ronin]

Posted by Londonhunter

 

 

I think I have stirred up a nest of hornets here................

 

I must stress this is not my intention

 

I am just like any other average punter "customer" I wanted to get what I agreed with the expert and I would love to be guided

 

by these experts as to my choice of specifications

 

Just to answer the above thread

 

NOooooooooooo - one does not have to wait if one wants quality products

 

THIS IS THE WRONG ATITUDE TO TAKE

 

What I have done in the past 02 days (bank holdiay) is to go onto a US shooting forum and got the name of 03 current gunsmiths who has built winning rifles in their NATIONALS in the past 05 years

 

I spoke to all 03 of them in the last 02 days for over 02 hours

 

All three are happy to discuss my requirments and gave me feedbacks as to what the final specificaitons should be.

 

One gunsmith stated that he is a little busy at the moment and gave me the number of a buddy gunsmith whom he thinks will build the same gun in a shorter interval. Guess what I have just spoken to that recommended smith 30 minutes ago !!!!!!!!!

 

It seems to me in the states and outisde UK the guntrade tend to stick together and never slag each other off.

 

They help each other out in busy times hence they rarely have a long waiting time.

 

I mentioned to these 03 gunsmith what we are experiencing here in UK and they are very surprised.

 

Hardware are at most 12 weeks to wait (for local US gunsmiths) including the dredded BAT actions...........

 

They are ALL reluntant to do the paperwork for export but all willing to give me export agents who specialised in export matters - I have now got 03 names

 

To the point one gunsmith have invited me to visit his factory / workshop and I might just take it up.

 

They ALL have a shooting club very nearby and they ALL shoot and compete on a weekly basis.

 

This gunsmith who invited me said whatever he build me in the future, he is happy to take me to the range at no extra cost for load developement. I said how much would that cost me and he said that would be fun to demonstrate to em that the rifle can shoot and in return I have invited him to stalking in Scotland.

 

That is an offer I really cannot refuse.

 

So to cut the long story short

 

Order the rifle of my choice

 

short delivery timescale depending on source of material

 

load development with the same gunsmith at a benchrest club

 

Take the family on holiday while collect the rilfe at the same time

 

Total in about the same price as a rifle charged by these top UK gunsmiths and they can take their family for holidays...............

 

Please your sensible people tell me what I should do?

 

Please dont tell me if there is a warranty problem what should I do?

 

I did ask that question and guess what

 

I am told that if the situation ever arises he will issue a letter of invitation so that I can bring my problem riflef to the states for "hunting purposes" or "competition purposes" and he will perform a service within 24 hours and let me carry on with my pronghorn hunting or competiiton............

 

this is a win win situaion guys...................

 

Do you know what this makes me feel so good

 

I rather spend about the same amoutn of money but I am treated as a customer NOT AN IGNORANT CUSTOMER

[Ronin]

This is a fantastic opportunity.

 

Oh what I would give to be in your position LH.

Had I the choice / funds, I would look towards the following people in the US and in no order of preferance:

 

Chris Mathews

 

George Gardner

 

Mike Bryant

 

Dave Tooley

 

Kirby Allen

There is a very good export service available in with Leroys Big Valley Gun Works at Glasgow, Montana - should you get the build you want. (dont know if they have been recommended already to you)

Good luck, but keep your eyes open

[Ronin]

You got 02 name out of three spot on

The 02 I have spoken to is

Mike Bryant and Dave Tooley

Plus one you did not mention

who is Clay spencer..........

[Ronin]

Londonhunter,

 

The icing on the cake may be to buy a USO or NXS scope in the US if you go over for a rifle - customs tend to look at the rifle more so than the optic mounted on it.

 

I`m a little surprised that Clay Spencer is on your list, a very good rifle smith for sure but I would have a look on snipershide - a lot is old history and nothing to do with Mr. Spencer I hasten to add, but several years ago HD rifles - involving Jeff Hicks and Clay Spencer took a dive when Jeff Hicks buggered off with peoples money and parts. The company changed name to Cactus Rifles, under new ownership and with Clay Spencer has tried to sort out the customers Jeff Hicks ripped off. This mess led to on Brit now waiting about 4 years for his rifle so far - the last year or so being with Cactus. I believe recently Clay Spencer has been in hospital for an operation also. Looks like the brit (well a Jock) willget his stick soon though.

 

That was just a word of caution that sometimes even in the US things go tits up and then it becomes even harder to get money / kit back. Laws may also not have the same sort of EU commonality? That said I`ve been well happy with my US dealings (USO are great people). Its just a point to keep in mind.

 

One last thought - if made in the UK offers a feel of security (at least you can go and bang on their door) then RPA would seem a good option.

 

David.

[20ppc]

There is just one problem with this plan, under US federal law unless you are a US citizen or a resident in the US you are not permitted to purchase firearms.

 

All the best,

 

Nick.

[shootingbags]

Really

seems I was able to buy not 1 but 2 rifles from the States hey Nick just off topic slightly did you spy the post about the legality of using sec5 expanding ammo on deer,seems i was righr and you are using illegal bullets

Pete,

 

I think what Nick means is face to face while you are in the US to take with you and not via telephone / email and exported to the UK.

I am sure Nick will correct me if I am wrong.

 

Also Pete, try to keep the topic in hand. Andy has already created this thread due to the Roedale topic going off its course.

[col48]

I WILL COPY MY OWN POST OVER, OR DID I WAST MY TIME TYPING IT?

 

hi LH or anyone for that matter

 

there are many many smiths in the UK that are more than capable of doing the job,so please don't be put off by anyone,yes you have had an unfavorable experience with one person, many many people have had bad experiences with one surgeon but we don't tar them all with the same brush.

yes its true that most of the component parts come from the USA,and I'm afraid that will be the case for the foreseeable future.but everything is still available to people like me with the right paperwork and a few of the smiths on here all so have there import papers.so all is not lost.

yes sometimes things are sent wrong,and its how you deal with it that counts,we are only human and we do all of use make mistakes.normally if the manufacture has made a mistake they will bend over back wards to help sort it out.after all its there rep thats on the line as well.having a good system in place helps find out the mistakes before they happen.but still they slip through,

the best way is to always deal direct with the manufacture,and not go through someone else,this only creates more problems and more room for misinformation.

some of the gunsmiths are booked up well in advance and try to have a years Worth of work in the machine shop at any given time.

and if the customers are made aware of this then there is no problem at all,but when you are not given any indication at all or in achievable dates then this is where we get problems.

we all so have people on here and in the UK that are all so ready to do the work in 1 or 2 weeks,this does not make them any worse a smith than any of the others that have 12 to 18 month waiting lists,its they just don't take on lodes of work in advance,basically they run there business different but produce the same product.

now pricing. they can charge whatever price they like, if you think that the extra cost is worth the extra £ for xxx to do your work then pay it,if you are happy to wait for Mr xxxx to do the job then send your rifle off and wait.will you get a better job done, well in your mind you will have and thats what we call peace of mind,and some time you can not put a price on that.

there are some very very good machinists/gunsmiths in this country,do not be so quick to discount them.

 

ATB

Colin

[Wsm]

LondonHunter

 

I have every sympathy for you with regard to your problems but I think its a little unfair to throw all the British Riflemakers into the same pot

 

I`ve just had a first class rifle job completed and you`d be hard pushed to better the workmanship quality wherever you chose to look.The work was completed to a timescale/price that was second to none and I was kept informed of the progress regularly throughout.The rifle shoots in the .2`s with very little load development

 

I was dubious about going down the custom route but after my experience the parts are already on order for two other rifle projects

 

Feel free to PM me if you wish

[MarinePMI]

20PPC,

 

WRT to your comment...true, sort of...

 

An FFL holder however, can purchase a firearms on their books, complete the work and then follow the export process. This way it is not a purchase for a foreign national per se, but for the gunsmith to build a product that can then be exported.

 

At least that's how I understand it (from my FFL dealer)...

[Guest wireviz]

[Not like the trades men here who use silicone to hide all there mistakes then Funky. Or the the people who use it to hide natures mistakes.

Yes the trade here is some times a bit hit and miss but if you get the right person on the job you wont need to worrie. Col48 is a good place to start never hides or his friend Steve kershaw while i was informed he was gy this has nothing to do with his smithing ability

[craigyboy]

While I have only had one forray into the semi custom world it was indeed a pleasurable one, Neil (dasherman) took my rifle, rebarreled, bedded and proofed it and had it back to me in no time, he kept me updated and was patient and hepled me decide what I needed/wanted and his prices where good + the rifle shoots brilliantly, shoots in the low too high .2's and still holds just over an inch at 300 yards, now thats what Im talkin about, is there really any need to go elsewhere with that kinda service?

[skany]

Just had build compleated by Dasherman myself & its a TOP job!

 

Can fault any part of his service! Pure quality

 

never hear a bad word said about Neil which in itself says a lot!;-P

 

Andy

[17 Rem]

My experiences of Dashermans work have all been as favourable as Craigyboys. I wouldn't go anywhere else.

[Vermincinerator]

Defineately Europe,

has everyone forgotten the great gunmaking heritage in this country, Boss, H&H and Purdey etc.....

The yanks have few that can equal the skills of the men that craft these fine firearms.

Germany, Italy amd Spain have equally skilled traditional craftsmen and produce custom guns to equal the best London guns.

Dont forget Liege Belgium, home of FN Browning, world renowned maker with a fine custom shop.

Yes most of those named bulid traditional shotguns but they also turn out top quality turn bolt guns as well.

There are thousands of skilled machinists and gifted amateurs with no formal riflemaking instruction, whom because they understand the principles involved can build BR rifles that will be the equal of anything that Norman, Callum or any US smith can build.

However, carving an exquisite stock from a piece of exhibition grade walnut is another matter, as is custom matalworking and machining parts from scratch, this is the domain of the highly skilled craftsman with years of precision machining and hand fitting skills under his belt.

These guys are about as well, so together with all the others there is absolutely no need for anyone to look over the pond.

 

Ian.

[baldie]

If you cant get hold of the gunsmith on the phone, or e mail, because he,s in another country.....your buggered, as many people have found to their cost.Remember that when you get a gun built abroad.

When you can knock on a mans door, and grab him by the breathing tackle....it tends to sharpen his mind somewhat , i would imagine.

[Guest wireviz]

yOU SHOULDNT NEED TO DO THAT BALDIE BUT IT GIVES YOU PIECE OF MIND IF YOU CAN It seems that there are good and bad everywhere so that is why it is important to expose the bad so others don't unexpectedly fall down the same bottom less pit. But what i will say if after all that has been wrote about Roedales customer service other people then choose him well that's there shout no use coming on here and crying .

[Ronin]

Londonhunter

 

I forgot to say that if you want a bespoke gunbuilder that delivers excellent service and quality work in the UK, you could try Trevor Proctor, he builds stunning rifles.

 

I have a friend who has three of trevors double rifles, their combined worth is more than my house, but are absolutely beautiful

[londonhunter]

Thank you for that

 

I have a 416 Rigby double which i want to put detatchable claws on with rail scope.

 

Can you PM his contact details?

[Ronin]

Hi LH

 

 

here is the link to Trevors site (be prepared to drool)

 

http://www.ttproctor.com/default.asp

 

He will usually answer the phone but if busy leave message.

 

I have his e-mail address if you get no joy, but that isnt for public consumption.

[SteveW]

Hi Andy

 

Please change your aftershave, or tell me what it is you use

Your inbox is full again !!!

 

Cheers Steve

[Ronin]

Steve try again mate, removed some fan mail

[Guest rogern]

Ronin

Your inbox is full

 

Regards

[Ronin]

Too damn popular - emptied it some more

[JR__]

If I was to have a rifle built in euro, it would be Roedale. Lincoln knows his that which promotes growth and vigour, and he uses good components and coatings. Speaks my language. I've built some gear that does ok, and recognise if a smith doesn't, all the builds I've seen from Roedale are very well finished and function as they should.

 

JR