Gunsmith Euro or USA?

[Vermincinerator]

JR,

Your name will now be mud

 

Ian.

[Middlestead]

I have a Roedale rifle also, took longer than quoted (three months) but was delivered in less than a year (I was told to expect 18 months-2years by the other builder who quoted me). Lets be honest, it was only my deposit that was paid up front, balance was paid when my rifle was sent

 

I havent been here very long, but untill now I have resisted speaking up as I do not need/want/deserve the "the type of s**t" JR has just recived (for comiting the "crime" of "not burning Roedale at the stake"). I dont know the history (and dont care to) you have with P.L. but I can asure you my rifle is MORE than what I expected. Finnish is flawless and I can shoot as well or better with it than I have shot with any other rifle from any other builder UK or US.

 

......back to the thread, I will order another rifle from Roedale. I've discussed it with him, 223 to my specs, not ready to order yet as kids have SLOWED my ability to save money and the price of fuel is tacking it's toll!!! If I were to order a rifle from the US, it would be from George Gardner @ G A precision. A Templer action, bottom metal to accept AICS mags, 1-8 24" 243 SS med/heavy, troated to shoot 105's and fit into an AICS mag, A5 McM or a Manners, 20 M.O.A. rail on top Jewel trigger.(not that i've gave it much thought....)

[Ronin]

Sounds like a great build plan Middlestead and if what you read on other forums GA Precision do fine work.

 

 

By the way you do run the risk of being flogged for what you have posted about Roedale

[Middlestead]

I know!!! Like I said I've kept quite till now, everyone else inculding JR (who is a well respected professional within the US guntrade, on the US forum I see him posting on by the way) gets lambasted from Funky bunch for reasons better known to him than me.

[Wsm]

This thread was set up so that the Roedale topic did not deviate from its origins but it now appears that we`ve come full circle once again.

 

Can we please get back to the original question without this degenerating into the inevitable when we go down this route

[JR__]

This thread was set up so that the Roedale topic did not deviate from its origins but it now appears that we`ve come full circle once again.

 

Can we please get back to the original question without this degenerating into the inevitable when we go down this route

 

The thread is titled gunsmith Euro or USA..I'm in the USA, and if I were to use a Euro smith, gave my 2 cents whom, fwiw. Pete builds the sort of rifles I would shoot, period.

 

Funky, if on a different planet means I am on a completely different level than yourself, ahem, there's no doubt about that. Get over it or don't, it's up to you.

 

JR

[JR__]

I bet Funky could use a hug. Poor guy, it'll be ok grasshopper.

 

JR

[JR__]

you should go on Opra why have Yanks got this complex and think there better than everyone else ??????????? I know it will be OK dear,now get back to work I can hear your boss shouting,tea boy tea boy where are you LOL

 

Now you have something against people who work for companies, and tea as well? blasphemous...you are a hoot!! And what's this Yank reference, there's plenty in the UK who outclass yourself, pretty much the lot.

 

Man, you're so bitter I bet you walk around with your face all puckered up like a cat's ass. You profess to know things you haven't a clue, you wind anyone up who doesn't agree with you, you've ridden your own bandwagon long enough you believe your own bs. There is a word for guys like that. ***** Plain and simple. Don't tell me you ride Roedale like an Alabama Leghound for the good of the people, you do it because you are a *****, and can't help yourself because you've driven yourself half bonkers. And that is what you come across as to me, a nutjob. Take a breath and change the record.

 

JR

[col48]

Now you have something against people who work for companies, and tea as well? blasphemous...you are a hoot!! And what's this Yank reference, there's plenty in the UK who outclass yourself, pretty much the lot.

 

Man, you're so bitter I bet you walk around with your face all puckered up like a cat's ass. You profess to know things you haven't a clue, you wind anyone up who doesn't agree with you, you've ridden your own bandwagon long enough you believe your own bs. There is a word for guys like that. Plain and simple. Don't tell me you ride Roedale like an Alabama Leghound for the good of the people, you do it because you are a , and can't help yourself because you've driven yourself half bonkers. And that is what you come across as to me, a nutjob. Take a breath and change the record.

 

JR

 

 

Jr

please can you tell use all,

(1) if you have been quoted 3 months for work on a rifle, by any smith regardless of EU our USA, and the job takes 2 years plus, with still no out come, would you consider this good practice.???

 

(2) bearing in mind you have just set up in business, do you think lead times and time taken are acceptable.????

 

(3) can you give any plausibly excuse for a re barrel and stock job to take such a long time to do.??? even after being told the items where in stock.

 

 

i think before you recommend anyone you should be able to answer these questions.

 

ATB

Colin

[JR__]

Jr

please can you tell use all,

(1) if you have been quoted 3 months for work on a rifle, by any smith regardless of EU our USA, and the job takes 2 years plus, with still no out come, would you consider this good practice.???

 

(2) bearing in mind you have just set up in business, do you think lead times and time taken are acceptable.????

 

(3) can you give any plausibly excuse for a re barrel and stock job to take such a long time to do.??? even after being told the items where in stock.

i think before you recommend anyone you should be able to answer these questions.

 

ATB

Colin

 

1) I would have to consider the circumstance..I have myself been on 2-3 or indefinite year builds, and we wanted them done just as much as the customer, due to it costing us money to finish the rifle, but was not going to complete until it was finished as the customer wanted, which is parts related usually

 

2) given just set up business, would give no lead times as don't have a feel for what the vendor deliveries are. Until all parts are in my hands, am not giving any sense of delivery time other than the decade.

 

3) Yes. Rebarrel and stock job sound easy enough, unless you cant source the part or customer changes his mind, which does happen. If was told part was in stock, was it the vendors stock or the smiths? Mistakes do happen especially on the fly.

 

I'm not excusing any of these reasons, but a start up is tough There are tried and true warriors which take more time than the customer would think satisfactory, but that is often due to the amount of work the smith does in general. Bartlein barrels once stated 2 week delivery rates, check them out now...Krieger, same thing if not standard..

 

One thing is for sure, the smith usually isnt trying to f' anyone, he doesn't get paid until the project is done. If hes f'ing himself, that's another story..

 

JR

[col48]

1) I would have to consider the circumstance..I have myself been on 2-3 or indefinite year builds, and we wanted them done just as much as the customer, due to it costing us money to finish the rifle, but was not going to complete until it was finished as the customer wanted, which is parts related usually

(1)

JR you where asked a specific question. please answer the question i have asked.as your answer has nothing to do with what i asked you.

if you have been quoted 3 months for work on a rifle, by any smith regardless of EU our USA, and the job takes 2 years plus, with still no out come, would you consider this good practice.???

 

 

 

2) given just set up business, would give no lead times as don't have a feel for what the vendor deliveries are. Until all parts are in my hands, am not giving any sense of delivery time other than the decade.

 

so you are going to be quoting, a decade for all your delivery's.??? and hopefully you will be able to deliver before the customer is to old to shoot, shorly someone who is as good as you keep saying you are would have a bit more knowledge of the industry than a decade?

3) Yes. Rebarrel and stock job sound easy enough, unless you cant source the part or customer changes his mind,

Jr it was not a trick question please read it again and answer the question, no change of mind and parts on shelf,

which does happen. If was told part was in stock, was it the vendors stock or the smiths? Mistakes do happen especially on the fly.

if you told me the parts where in stock, this would mean you had the parts to do my job on your shelf, i find that quit simple and yet you make it sound so difficult to comprehend.

All parts on the shelf please answer the question. i made the questions simple so we would have no misunderstandings.

 

 

I'm not excusing any of these reasons, but a start up is tough There are tried and true warriors which take more time than the customer would think satisfactory,

but if you are told 1 year from the start you can make your own mind up if you are prepared to be with out your rifle for that long.

(y any smith would want to have someones rifle in there safe for that amount of time and not be working on it is beyond me.)

but if you are told 2 to 3 weeks and it still takes a year + for god sake what part of a custom rifle do you have to wait 2 years for??

MC Milan stock longest wait 20 weeks. L/W barrel longest wait 8 weeks. nesika barreled action longest wait 7 month and they acutely moved to a different location wile this went on. all quoted times i might add, not one of them said you might have to wait a decade

 

but that is often due to the amount of work the smith does in general. Bartlein barrels once stated 2 week delivery rates, check them out now...Krieger, same thing if not standard..

but they are telling people straight up front, they are still not quoting people 2 o 3 weeks are they???

One thing is for sure, the smith usually isnt trying to f' anyone, he doesn't get paid until the project is done. If hes f'ing himself, that's another story..

 

JR

 

 

no one is saying anyone is fing around it was a hypothetical question based on your recommendations.

so will you answer the questions i asked properly?? or do we get answers to questions no one has asked???

 

ATB

Colin

[Guest wireviz]

quote from JR [am not giving any sense of delivery time other than the decade.)

 

Here we go my dog is bigger than your dog etc GB wait time 6 months to a year . Ill beat that say the Germans (roedale ) Two years plus for us but we are good . The yanks that's #### all ill beat both of them you can wait Ten years for a rifle from me (JR ) But you wil be happy with it when its finnished.

 

Come on lads lets keep it real here and JR its just a good job you don't work for your self mate of the 10 years wait time would have certainly shot you in your foot.

[JR__]

quote from JR [am not giving any sense of delivery time other than the decade.)

 

Here we go my dog is bigger than your dog etc GB wait time 6 months to a year . Ill beat that say the Germans (roedale ) Two years plus for us but we are good . The yanks that's #### all ill beat both of them you can wait Ten years for a rifle from me (JR ) But you wil be happy with it when its finnished.

 

Come on lads lets keep it real here and JR its just a good job you don't work for your self mate of the 10 years wait time would have certainly shot you in your foot.

 

You guys must be bent. Meaning bent out of shape, not the UK meaning..If I worked for myself, hahah...if you only knew mate..

 

What I'm saying is not that it takes 10 years to make the rifle, but that if the parts I need are not in my hands, it is and will be an indefinite build schedule. That is pretty simple arithmetic there mates.

 

1) If I had been quoted 3 months(which I would question to begin with), and the rifle hadn't been finished in those 3 months, I would call the gunsmith. No doubt. I'd just simply call the guy who was building it. Listen to his spiel, if I agree to wait an additional period of time he's requoted, I call at that date. I would then ask what the hold up is, what are we waiting on to finish this gun. If when he explained the reason the holdup was is satisfactory, I wait. I'd even ask if there was something I could do to help the build along, let me know. If his response isn't satisfactory, I say thanks very much, but I think I'll go a different route, send it back please. Always, I would deal with the gunsmith personally, not on the internet in front of god and everyone, because either way it is my choice whether my rifle is being built here, or there. To me it's pointless to blast someone who is in the process of building your gear. If you don't like the service, get out..

 

2) I wouldn't even quote a decade on an initial call if I wasn't certain the parts I need to finish the rifle won't be in. Why would I? It's called an indefinite build schedule, but as soon as I had an iota of a clue, would respond back and let you know how the work is going along. You ask anyone who has dealt with me, I just tell you how it is.

 

3) Colin, don't you ever put words in my mouth. 'In stock' does not mean they are on your shelf necessarily unless he ####### said so. I've been on the phone quoting an order, going thru the parts with the individual while scrolling thru Brownells or Midway, 'yeah, looks like the parts are in stock so shouldn't be long', only to phone said companies where they said 'were out'...damn.. but I usually do return the call to the customer telling him as much. Again, you ask anyone here who has dealt with me, how's my service record. If they outright lied, yes that is wrong, but get that that which promotes growth and vigour clarified to begin with, and you'll sleep much better at night.

 

4) As I said, until you have the part in your greasy hands, it's indefinite wait. I've just been thru the hoops with Brownells getting particular action screws in. 3 times, they sent the exact same wrong screw. Can't imagine what the euro guys have to deal with on these things..Rather than driving to Iowa to pick the part off their shelf myself, I finally said f'it, and drew up the screw for the machine shop to make for me..I've seen McMillans wait over a year and nearing two, and that is stateside, when many of the companies here are geared for military as well, like Badger, their wait times triple but I'm ok with that as I know they're working on govt time, this is a common theme at times. Not a new deal. Bartlein wasn't telling people up front no longer 2-3 week wait on their website, and they got into stick about it. When shooting season begins, you just take for granted it might take a little longer than expected...If there's a war going on, don't hold your breath..

 

that which promotes growth and vigour happens, but the customer always has the upper hand. If the service is bad, try someone else. easy as that.

 

take care now,

 

JR

[col48]

You guys must be bent. Meaning bent out of shape, not the UK meaning..If I worked for myself, hahah...if you only knew mate..

 

i have heard you are starting out on your own,

 

 

What I'm saying is not that it takes 10 years to make the rifle, but that if the parts I need are not in my hands, it is and will be an indefinite build schedule. That is pretty simple arithmetic there mates.

no what you said was.

given just set up business, would give no lead times as don't have a feel for what the vendor deliveries are. Until all parts are in my hands, am not giving any sense of delivery time other than the decade.

which implies you would be OK with a build taking a decade.and the quote was quit simple and yet you are making excuses all ready.

 

 

1) If I had been quoted 3 months(which I would question to begin with),

no need to question it at all, parts are on the shelf. simple stop making this difficult,

 

and the rifle hadn't been finished in those 3 months, I would call the gunsmith. No doubt. I'd just simply call the guy who was building it. Listen to his spiel, if I agree to wait an additional period of time he's requoted,

if you call anyone you call the person you commissioned to do the hole project,A bit like if you call border barrels, you would not talk to any one except the owner,after all thats where the money is going not the tea lad.

I call at that date. I would then ask what the hold up is, what are we waiting on to finish this gun. If when he explained the reason the holdup was is satisfactory, I wait. I'd even ask if there was something I could do to help the build along, let me know. If his response isn't satisfactory, I say thanks very much, but I think I'll go a different route,

what if the rifle smith refuses to give you the rifle back???

as any excuses would be unsatisfactory as you where told all parts where on the shelf

 

send it back please. Always, I would deal with the gunsmith personally, not on the internet in front of god and everyone, because either way it is my choice whether my rifle is being built here, or there. To me it's pointless to blast someone who is in the process of building your gear. If you don't like the service, get out..

again after a year of asking for your rifle back you have still not been sent it.even though you have said send it back uncompleted,what would you do???

2) I wouldn't even quote a decade on an initial call if I wasn't certain the parts I need to finish the rifle won't be in. Why would I? It's called an indefinite build schedule, but as soon as I had an iota of a clue, would respond back and let you know how the work is going along. You ask anyone who has dealt with me, I just tell you how it is.

 

you said earlier that you would but lets not beat about that one any longer.

but i don't know how simple i can make this or how many times i will have to type this

PARTS ARE ON THE SHELF

 

 

3) Colin, don't you ever put words in my mouth.

if you call quoting what you have put putting words in your mouth then guilty as charged.

 

You're just being a bit defensive because I called your mate what he is, a tw**..

there really is no need at all to call someone names. sorry i thought i was talking to a professional, please keep your comments out the gutter

 

'In stock' does not mean they are on your shelf necessarily unless he ####### said so.

again in stock means you have the parts in your work shop. so does on the shelf.maybe you are not quit as good as you like to tell everyone.

by saying all parts are on the shelf you are saying you have them in stock.

what you are saying is all parts are in stock, and we are going a stock take so I'm off down to Brownell's to do it.

please lets keep this real,and this is not an American thing its common senses and you are just trying to cover yourself.

 

I've been on the phone quoting an order, going thru the parts with the individual while scrolling thru Brownells or Midway, 'yeah, looks like the parts are in stock so shouldn't be long',

how can you tell if parts are in Brownell's stock from the INTERNET. they are not updated every second.

and unless you have them in your hands you don't have any stock, simple

only to phone said companies where they said 'were out'...damn.. i wish i had have had the senses to call them before i made my self look like i don't know what I'm doing

 

 

but I usually do return the call to the customer telling him as much.

don't you think it would be better and more professional if you took a record of what the customer wants and then get back to them.in stead of looking like some one who hasn't got a clue

Again, you ask anyone here who has dealt with me, how's my service record. If they outright lied, yes that is wrong, but get that that which promotes growth and vigour clarified to begin with, and you'll sleep much better at night.

 

I'm sure you are very very good at your job.

but you do seem to make a simple question in to a very difficult one

4) As I said, until you have the part in your greasy hands, it's indefinite wait. I've just been thru the hoops with Brownells getting particular action screws in. 3 times, they sent the exact same wrong screw. Can't imagine what the euro guys have to deal with on these things..Rather than driving to Iowa to pick the part off their shelf myself, I finally said f'it, and drew up the screw for the machine shop to make for me..I've seen McMillans wait over a year and nearing two,

sorry but i have never seen or heard anyone wait for a year or longer for a MC Milan. 20 weeks is the longest i have heard off up to date, i have not seen any longer than that on the net ether.

and that is stateside, when many of the companies here are geared for military as well, like Badger, their wait times triple but I'm ok with that as I know they're working on govt time, this is a common theme at times. Not a new deal. Bartlein wasn't telling people up front no longer 2-3 week wait on their website, and they got into stick about it. When shooting season begins, you just take for granted it might take a little longer than expected...If there's a war going on, don't hold your breath..

 

well that is just bad practice not that which promotes growth and vigour happens, i all ways call the company as a lot of the times the company are more bothered about producing the goods than keeping there web site up dated.

so a quick call to who ever and then a follow up email reiterating what has been said/ordered.

talk to people is the key.and get it from the horses mouth.

that which promotes growth and vigour happens, but the customer always has the upper hand. If the service is bad, try someone else. easy as that.

 

take care now,

 

JR

 

i will not comment again on this as we seem to be going round in circles.twisting 3 simple questions.

 

all the best and i wish you well in everything you do.and don't forget, the best advert is your customer

ATB

Colin