Bedding Recoil Lug AICS

[farmer7]

Hi chaps,

 

I bought a AICS for my .308 PSS a few months back on here and as I fitted it I noticed that as you tightened the two bolts the recoil lug moved away from the rear face of the recoil lug cut-out by between 0.5-0.75mm.

 

Consequently the lug wasn't actually touching anything! So I cut some thin strips of tin and packed out behind the lug to take up the space which is not tidy or pretty but appears to be working so far!

 

Anyway I decided I want to bed the lug so it has full contact and not stressed one side more than the other. I know a lot of folk here like to bed the AICS completely but I dont have a gunsmith nearby and would be slightly nervous of bedding the whole thing in case I glue it all together!

 

So can anyone give me some advice or pointers on how to bed only the lug? I've ordered a tin of Devcon 10112 and a tin of Kiwi Neutral polish should be here in the next day or two.

 

Here's what I was thinking:

1.Roughen up the rear face so the compound can get a grip.

2.Polish on a very thin layer of polish on the recoil lug and nearby barrel.

3.Put a decent dab of compound on the rear face.

4.Refit barreled action.

5.Replace bolts and tighten up a little..... a lot..... I've no idea! Usually have it torqued to 55"lbs in use.

6.Leave to cure overnight.

7.Shoot!

 

That was my plan but any info or pointers would be appreciated. Never done any bedding before.

 

Thanks again! Alastair.

 

P.S. I presume 3/4's of a mm of Devcon would be ok and I wouldn't need to remove any more material? I dont have a mill only a selection of files!

[kent]

synthetic bedding aint rocket science. Read up, at least you need to bed the lug and the tang or its bound to be stressed between the two. Lock ins are generally very cure-able mechanical or perhaps by lack of proper application of release agent to a part? just add heat via hot air gun at low level and the bedding will start to soften. Some might have you believe its a mystic art but honestly its just time consuming if you follow the correct proceedure

[baldie]

Anyone can bed a rifle and make a broccoli of it, its real easy. I see them every week. The bedding is useless and just devalues the stock/gun.

 

 

Bedding a rifle PROPERLY , is a whole different ball game, to achieve what you are wanting to do, i.e. , remove ALL stress from the barrelled action. You cannot achieve this with the tools you have Alastair, you need access to a mill to do it properly.

Ignore the people who tell you to, or advocate "skim" bedding on such a stock....it does not work, and achieves nothing. You have to remove a fair amount of metal from the block to relieve it properly for bedding material.

 

A barrelled action will rise out of an aics by a 3-4 mm, if you tighten both bolts and and then loosen the front one. That is stress. A properly bedded action will only exhibit thousands of an inch movements, if any at all. This is only visible by using a dial gauge to see it.

 

As for being a "mystic art" it isn,t, but i,ll tell you now, that all the gunsmiths bedding secrets are not on youtube.

[foxing2night]

Anyone can bed a rifle and make a broccoli of it, its real easy. I see them every week. The bedding is useless and just devalues the stock/gun.

 

 

Bedding a rifle PROPERLY , is a whole different ball game, to achieve what you are wanting to do, i.e. , remove ALL stress from the barrelled action. You cannot achieve this with the tools you have Alastair, you need access to a mill to do it properly.

Ignore the people who tell you to, or advocate "skim" bedding on such a stock....it does not work, and achieves nothing. You have to remove a fair amount of metal from the block to relieve it properly for bedding material.

 

A barrelled action will rise out of an aics by a 3-4 mm, if you tighten both bolts and and then loosen the front one. That is stress. A properly bedded action will only exhibit thousands of an inch movements, if any at all. This is only visible by using a dial gauge to see it.

 

As for being a "mystic art" it isn,t, but i,ll tell you now, that all the gunsmiths bedding secrets are not on youtube.

Plus one on Baldie,s reply,,

[Ronin]

There is plenty of information out there available which will allow the "inexperienced" get into trouble real quick, real easy.....

 

 

My advice would be get it done properly, by someone who knows what they're doing with provenance.

[pork chop]

synthetic bedding aint rocket science. Read up, at least you need to bed the lug and the tang or its bound to be stressed between the two. Lock ins are generally very cure-able mechanical or perhaps by lack of proper application of release agent to a part? just add heat via hot air gun at low level and the bedding will start to soften. Some might have you believe its a mystic art but honestly its just time consuming if you follow the correct proceedure

hi buddy i,ve just bedded my 527,first time i,ve had a go at bedding and its gone very well and it came out with a couple of slaps with my hand on the barrel only thing i would change is i bedded the mag box at the same time and that and the action did not go together as they should have.sorted that with a dremel and as the action bed has not been touched i think it should be ok.so have a go

[farmer7]

Thanks for the replies fellas. As I said I wasnt going to attempt a full bedding job but to bed only the recoil lug because it has ZERO contact with the chassis.

 

I've bought the stuff so I'll give it a go anyway and cant really afford to send the rifle away just now to have it done professionally.

 

I know opinions vary on bedding AICS with some saying not to bother and some saying its vital and also I've no doubt Dave you are right about the stress and would obviously be better if any action is stress free. But its not a target rifle, its just a stock PSS, save the trigger, used for Deer/Vermin/ and Plinking but even as is with the steel shims behind the lug it will consistently put 5 rounds inside an inch and a quarter at 200 yards which I'm very happy with for what it is.

[Chris]

I'd like to have a go at this but wouldn't expect my first go to be very pretty.

 

When I bought my first house I decorated each room myself. If you walked round it you could easily guess which was the first one I did and which was the last, it stood out a mile.

 

I suppose what I'm saying is it depends if it's a one off or is it something you will be doing to your future rifles and enjoy tinkering yourself. Everybody needs to start somewhere but do you want to start with this one!

[bradders]

I like to use a good quality car wax as my release agent

[Jagged 77]

Let's face it, a standard R700 bolted into a chassis is going to be full of stress, thats before you even consider the stress on an unbedded one piece rail added to that. You only have to take the action (or rail for that matter) and tighten down the front screw only - the rear will elevate by some considerable degree (and vice versa tightening down the rear only). With all being said there are plenty of folks out there that can make such a system shoot and shoot well. If you have a hobbiest wanting to relieve some of the stresses with a bit of DIY stock bedding, unless they make a real hash it should only improve things. Needless to say the gold standard is to pay for a professional bedding job that will guarentee to get the best out of the stock / action.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with giving it a go, as long as you know what you're getting into. Worst case scenario you can dremel it out and start again. If it was a full custom build I'd pay for it to be done - R700 in an aics go for it.

[brown dog]

Is this turning offline when tightening one screw peculiar to Rem actions? Are they really that distorted?

 

Would I be correct in presuming that a Valkyrie/Surgeon/Stiller wouldn't show the same 'flex' (ie properly straight tube into a properly straight v-block)?

[Danpd]

Is this turning offline when tightening one screw peculiar to Rem actions? Are they really that distorted?

 

Would I be correct in presuming that a Valkyrie/Surgeon/Stiller wouldn't show the same 'flex' (ie properly straight tube into a properly straight v-block)?

It happens with the customs too. There's 2 real issues, first is the fact that nothing is perfectly straight, not the £900 stock you just bought and not the £1000 action to go with it. Just by bolting those two components together you have induced stress into the assembly.

 

Secondly is a problem with the remington style tang, due to its shape it actually only contacts the V-block at two small points, and then because the rear action screw is located after these points when you tighten down you are actually flexing the whole tang.

 

Some of the R700 clones have a full thickness tang, which looks a bit ugly in a sporter stock, but adds a lot of strength when using a chassis system.

 

The fact is that there are a lot of rifles simply bolted straight into a chassis system, which shoot very well despite the stress, but bedding can alleviate problems with thermal drift on long shot strings and POI change in different temperatures.

[kent]

Anyone can bed a rifle and make a broccoli of it, its real easy. I see them every week. The bedding is useless and just devalues the stock/gun.

 

 

Bedding a rifle PROPERLY , is a whole different ball game, to achieve what you are wanting to do, i.e. , remove ALL stress from the barrelled action. You cannot achieve this with the tools you have Alastair, you need access to a mill to do it properly.

Ignore the people who tell you to, or advocate "skim" bedding on such a stock....it does not work, and achieves nothing. You have to remove a fair amount of metal from the block to relieve it properly for bedding material.

 

A barrelled action will rise out of an aics by a 3-4 mm, if you tighten both bolts and and then loosen the front one. That is stress. A properly bedded action will only exhibit thousands of an inch movements, if any at all. This is only visible by using a dial gauge to see it.

 

As for being a "mystic art" it isn,t, but i,ll tell you now, that all the gunsmiths bedding secrets are not on youtube.

very bad place to look for anything unless you already understand it is u-tube. There are very good books that have been published for instance, remember them?. you do not need a milling machine but you do need to relieve some room, this can be done with hand held tools, though some really need help cutting solid food with a knife and fork as such should avoid working on their guns at all times. Lets be fair about things, very few UK rifle smiths have served a recognised training many have not even been professional engineers yet do quite well. So it begs the question were they themselves started I think

[gbal]

very bad place to look for anything unless you already understand it is u-tube. There are very good books that have been published for instance, remember them?. you do not need a milling machine but you do need to relieve some room, this can be done with hand held tools, though some really need help cutting solid food with a knife and fork as such should avoid working on their guns at all times. Lets be fair about things, very few UK rifle smiths have served a recognised training many have not even been professional engineers yet do quite well. So it begs the question were they themselves started I think

It's where you end up that really matters-not where you begin.I daresay many experts-to-be botched a few things at the start,but they don't now,and that is what you are paying for.The one off amateur may well never get beyond the botch-at least it will be on his own rifle.Most of which are not broke enough to need fixing anyhow.1 moa will do for most-and may not be significantly improved anyhow.A precision rifle needs a proper professional job doing on it.

Gbal

[6.5shooter]

I have bedded two rifles of my own.

Its something that takes a bit of time and thought.

Its not rocketscience or a hidden art.

[sonic]

I've bedded all my rifles while the first few times my not of been pretty they were stress free (tested with dti).

Do you need a mill? no but it does make life easier.

Like most things in life you can learn the skills needed to do the job. Some find it easier to do this than others.

 

I do find it amusing when people in any trade claim some secret not revealed elsewhere. I am quite happy to explain how I do jobs a lot of my work comes from the fact I do. If your results stand up you don't go short of customers.

[ChrisF]

Opps , you will hate me , I just had a mate machine a bit out of the front of the std AICS stock ( so the larger recoil lug would fit ) , dropped the action straight into stock , and hand tightened the bolts with allen key , shots reaal good , its not a Rem700 thou , its a Surgeon .

 

Also just dropped in a Badger M2008 into a stock that had been modied for it before , so I have had good luck with not bedding these stocks at all .

 

Later Chris

[gunner]

Awaiting my remmy back from dave, it was the last attempt at getting every last oommff out of my rig ! in an AICS , if you can afford it have it done . it might not shoot any better but at least i know the stress has been relieved from the tang ! cheers fellas