Best Deer legal Calibre for a Carbine

[Moorlander]

What would you UKV chaps say was the best calibre for a short barrel (12")  deer legal  rifle  ? the bullet must not be less than .240 inches and it must have at least 1700 ft/lb`s ME .

[One on top of two]

A good mate of mine has just done the same .. 

the problem your have is finding something that meets the min requirements and does NOT shoot like a dog ! 

in the end he went for a marlin 30/30 carbine and I has to say after a considerable amount of pi55 taking , it shoots fantastic !! 
I put 3 rounds just under an inch ( rested on front bag ) at 75m  with the fitted open sights  and with some cheap factory ammo .

MY ADVICE WOULD BE  before you write an underlever off , go try one ! 
 

[Moorlander]

27 minutes ago, One on top of two said:

A good mate of mine has just done the same .. 

the problem your have is finding something that meets the min requirements and does NOT shoot like a dog ! 

in the end he went for a marlin 30/30 carbine and I has to say after a considerable amount of pi55 taking , it shoots fantastic !! 
I put 3 rounds just under an inch ( rested on front bag ) at 75m  with the fitted open sights  and with some cheap factory ammo .

MY ADVICE WOULD BE  before you write an underlever off , go try one ! 
 

Well 30/30 meets the criteria , if a bolt action was chambered in 30/30 it would open up a bigger bullet head choice so a contender .

[One on top of two]

It’s a great calibre for close to medium range applications and very overlooked in this country . 
 

[Stumpy]

308 with 180 grain soft points at starting loads velocities? (There’s a rem model seven in the for sales section that would be perfect 👌  😉)

[srvet]

On 10/20/2019 at 4:43 PM, Moorlander said:

What would you UKV chaps say was the best calibre for a short barrel (12")  deer legal  rifle  ? the bullet must not be less than .240 inches and it must have at least 1700 ft/lb`s ME .

Is that a misprint or did you say 12 inch????  As in one foot long!!

[Ronin]

12” is min league length and weapon must me longer than 24” 

 

Cant imagine a 30/30 will come close at that spec

 

45/70 on the other hand ,,,

[One on top of two]

30 minutes ago, Ronin said:

12” is min league length and weapon must me longer than 24” 

 

Cant imagine a 30/30 will come close at that spec

 

45/70 on the other hand ,,,

It will be for roe in Scotland. 
as for a 45/70 with a 12” barrel would be about as daft as you could get. As your just not  to tame the thing 
if the OP is after a genuine 12” deer legal calibre that will cover him for all six species either side of the borders. There’s no reasonable way to do it. Like I have said a good friend was after a similar rifle for roe I believe he ended up with a 14” ( regardless of how pointless it was. That’s what he wanted  and that’s what he got ) 

I would be interested to know why the OP would want such a thing ? 

[Ronin]

Easily tamed with a brake 

 

However that wasn’t the question - 45/70 isn’t so bad to shoot with lighter loads and would be deer legal with a short barrel 

 

Always trade offs with any specialist oddball 

[brown dog]

MV: Has the minimum mv requirement been removed for Scotland? If not, I'd wonder whether 30/30 out of a 14" barrel is deer legal.

ME: Similarly, has anyone done the maths on 30/30 out of a 12 or 14" barrel? I'd also wonder whether it would be sufficient in either Scot or Eng/Wales (?)

 

[One on top of two]

4 hours ago, brown dog said:

MV: Has the minimum mv requirement been removed for Scotland? If not, I'd wonder whether 30/30 out of a 14" barrel is deer legal.

ME: Similarly, has anyone done the maths on 30/30 out of a 12 or 14" barrel? I'd also wonder whether it would be sufficient in either Scot or Eng/Wales (?)

 

Maybe illegal for Scotland with standard factory ammo ,  but for England and Wales it has always been legal as stated by the Deer Act - "For all deer of any species - a minimum calibre of .240 and minimum muzzle energy of 1,700 foot pounds is the legal requirement". 
30/30 Federal 150gr SP FN produce a muzzle energy of 1,902 foot pounds
and that’s in a 20” barrel, 

if you want to use a 30/30 hand loading is an absolute must , factory ammo can be a bit tame to say the least at its mainly all short barrel carbines in that calibre. And they can kick like a mule .
Now if you want to drop your loads down to a 140 grain SP FN your set for across the border ( Just mind ) 

although as I have already stated I personally don’t think it is the best tool in the shed . But It’s more than adequate, it'll tackle any UK deer at least as well as any other deer calibre within it's range limitations. A very handy, punchy and accurate hunting rifle which is good  up to about 150 yards mostly in woodland.

also I believe the 30/30 has possibly taken more deer than any other calibre in North America. 

Also I wonder just how many deer legal shortened .243 win using factory ammo are in use . Not many I know 

[Moorlander]

10 hours ago, srvet said:

Is that a misprint or did you say 12 inch????  As in one foot long!!

Yep 12" , I`ll be using a moderator , but as many calibres wont have burnt the powder I thought I`d ask the question.

[Moorlander]

9 hours ago, One on top of two said:

 

I would be interested to know why the OP would want such a thing ? 

I want to be able to fit it in a back pack when walking from one farm to another and also as a truck gun.

[One on top of two]

3 minutes ago, Moorlander said:

I want to be able to fit it in a back pack when walking from one farm to another and also as a truck gun.

That’s a good enough reason 👍

[srvet]

3 hours ago, Moorlander said:

I want to be able to fit it in a back pack when walking from one farm to another and also as a truck gun.

Fair enough indeed, just wanted to make sure. I have jiggled around on quickload and the 308 Win seems to be as good as anything. With around 44 g of Viht N130 and a 125g Hornady SST you will get a predicted 2600 fps for 1874 ft lbs with a 12 inch barrel. Deer legal and providing a relatively frangible bullet is chosen (such as the SST) should be effective at the more modest velocity. This load has approaching 100% load density and burns almost 99% of the powder in the barrel.  The other way around this problem would be a folding stock or a ......... blaser!! Incidentally with a 12 inch barrel you may end up having to amputate some of the forend to gain enough space to moderate it! By extending a bit to 14 inches you may get away without chopping the stock and would gain a fair bit ballistically. Another option would be a single shot like a Thompson Centre which I believe is available in 308 with a 15 inch barrel that due to the short length of the action would be very short but retain some ballistic efficiency

[Treedave]

Dta covert A2 with 16” stock 308 barrel or a custom 14” barrel. All legal, shoot well, very very good off hand, they’ve even lightened it. Perhaps not your cup of tea / price bracket.

https://deserttech.com/covert.php

[Moorlander]

21 hours ago, srvet said:

Fair enough indeed, just wanted to make sure. I have jiggled around on quickload and the 308 Win seems to be as good as anything. With around 44 g of Viht N130 and a 125g Hornady SST you will get a predicted 2600 fps for 1874 ft lbs with a 12 inch barrel. Deer legal and providing a relatively frangible bullet is chosen (such as the SST) should be effective at the more modest velocity. This load has approaching 100% load density and burns almost 99% of the powder in the barrel.  The other way around this problem would be a folding stock or a ......... blaser!! Incidentally with a 12 inch barrel you may end up having to amputate some of the forend to gain enough space to moderate it! By extending a bit to 14 inches you may get away without chopping the stock and would gain a fair bit ballistically. Another option would be a single shot like a Thompson Centre which I believe is available in 308 with a 15 inch barrel that due to the short length of the action would be very short but retain some ballistic efficiency

Thanks for that.

[Scotch_egg]

I have a thing for short rifles as my ground is heavy woodland. I also use an Eberlestock backpack which doesn’t look like it is carrying a rifle when nothing pops up above the top of the bag. 
 

I have 16” .308 and 18” .308 and also a 14.5” .243

The .243 is on a Thompson/Centre Encore single shot action and is super short. If barrels were as readily available as in the USA I would have more but prices once here don’t make it a desirable option. 
 

The 18” .308 is on a Blaser R93 I have shot many deer with it now and it is excellent. I use a Sierra 165gr game king on everything from muntjac to large fallow bucks. This is a very short overall package with an over barrel mod. 
 

The 16” .308 is on a rifle call The Fix. This I haven’t had any longer than 6 months and have only shot one deer. It was excellent I don’t anticipate being able to actually see the difference the loss of 2” of barrel will give. 
The best part for me is the 6.3lbs weight of the bare rifle and that is uses a removable magazine system and has a folding stock. Issue being I had to import it myself. 
 

 

[Popsbengo]

On 10/23/2019 at 9:38 AM, Ronin said:

12” is min league length and weapon must me longer than 24” 

 

Cant imagine a 30/30 will come close at that spec

 

45/70 on the other hand ,,,

Assuming a foldable stock, is 24" minimum length with the stock folded? 

 

[BlueBoy69]

You could try a rifle chambered for the 358 Winchester. The case essentially the 308 Winchester necked up to 0.358".

That should give you around 2,000-2,150 ft⋅lb of muzzle energy with 200 to 250 grain bullet out of a 12" barrel.

Cases are still made by Starline and Hornady. That or just neck-up 308 cases.

[Moorlander]

8 hours ago, Popsbengo said:

Assuming a foldable stock, is 24" minimum length with the stock folded? 

 

Yes if it can be fired folded.