Re-Pete Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 The attached pics are of a Savage factory 6BR barrel that's had a hard life........4000 rounds of a stiff load of RS 60, aka Rel 17/ Elcho 17 behind 107 grain SMK's and 105 grain Scenars. MV's around 2900-3000 fps. From top to bottom,: The lip at the start of the bore, 30mm into the rifling, 100mm into the rifling, and 100mm before the muzzle. It would still shoot 1/2 MOA at 300yds on a calm day before being replaced with a 6.5x47 Bergara...................that's had 1200 rounds of an equally stiff load of RS 60. Pics to follow. What is interesting is that the button chatter marks left when the barrel was made are still just about visible near the muzzle end, so maybe there's something in the old wives tale about "only the last six (or was it twelve) inches of a barrel counts". (I bodged up an adaptor to fit a small digital compact to a Hawkeye, and thought I'd share.......) Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldie Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 Nice clear pics of fire cracking Pete. As I think i've said before though, despite the last foot being good, it matters , not a jot, if the bullet jacket gets ripped off, before they get there.🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catch-22 Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 Very interesting - thanks for sharing Pete. I'd be keen to know what your typical cleaning process has been, specifically round count between cleaning, solvents used, whether you were carbon cleaning or full decoppering, scrubbing with a brush or just mopped with patches etc. You've also been using HbN haven't you?? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob57 Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 Interesting Pete, good pics👍 ,now that you've just started using hbn it would be good to keep a catalogue of pics of from day one along the life of this new barrel !! My 17rem barrel has just been taken off,I was seriously thinking of getting 12" of chamber end sawn down length to see how bad it looked, shot a16" 29 shot group at 100 yds at end,bet it looked bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Re-Pete Posted January 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 It will be interesting to compare the state of the bore of my new 6x47 (Bergara barrel) after a couple of thousand hot rounds. This will only be shooting HexBN coated bullets. If the damage is bad enough to rip the jacket off, I'd imagine it would go off-song a while before that actually happens.......the bullet would wobble along the rough freebore and probably hit the lands at an angle. As a contrast, here's a set taken of a Savage factory 308 barrel off a mod 12 F/TR. We don't have an accurate round count for this, but it's of the order of 2000-2500 Powder was N140 for the first year or two, then we started using TR 140 when it came out.......both single base powders, and 155 grain bullets. There is a lot of difference, even if you allow for the long barrel life of 308. Evidence of the button chatter marks are still visible all the way down, and shortly before I took it off the rifle, it hit 5 consecutive F-class V's at 600yds............ I'll post the next sets when I get time. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Re-Pete Posted January 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 I use VFG felts for cleaning, a dry felt after each 50 rounds, and an extreme felt every 200 rounds. Extremes have hard brass fibres embedded in the felt and take pretty much everything out. On the very rare occasions when I feel the need to de-copper, I use Robla Solo-Mil. Just plug the muzzle and fill the barrel using a big hypodermic syringe, leave overnight, drain, rinse through a couple of times with warm water, dry thoroughly, and oil. For the HexBN'd barrel, I plan to just use the dry VFG felts. The Bergara barrel has been honed at the factory, and the surface looks almost as if it's been lapped................remarkable for a £200 barrel. I'm hoping the BN will keep this free from copper. I've already noticed an absence of the usual black powdery residue along the first part of the bore after shooting, and the first felt through after a session is pretty much clean, just light grey in colour. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catch-22 Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 Very helpful as ever Pete, thanks. Ive not heard of Robla before, seems interesting stuff. As I too use HbN, I'm merely dry patching but will strip everything out with Sweets 7.62 after a couple of hundred rounds or when it's been particularly rainy/damp. After dry patching, I reswab the bore with my HbN solution and burnish the bore to coat the barrel again. Will be interesting to see how it all works out - I may need to invest in a bore scope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No i deer Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 Yes photos are very clear. Trouble is seeing that would probaly play mind games to most shooters, personally I wouldn't have a bore cam and when I can't get my rifle to shoot anymore I would get it rebarreled. I was told my 6.5 06 was a barrel burner. 1500 shots max. I load near max. After about 2000 shots it lost velocity. I upped the charge til it was running as before. After about another 500 shots it was booked in for a 284 makeover. A few days before I sent it away I had 2 consecutive 630yd rabbits, Neil Mckillop said there was nothing left of the first 4 or 5 inches up the barrel. Shot ok though 🤔😁😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Re-Pete Posted January 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 Back in the day, I was told "Don't get a borescope, you'll frighten yourself and lose sleep"...................wouldn't be without it now, though, especially if I was buying a used rifle. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No i deer Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 Maybe somebody could put a photo on of the throat of a new barrel. How many shots would say a 308 barrel do before you start seeing fire cracking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Re-Pete Posted January 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 Take another look at the first pic in the second set, the 308 Savage barrel...............crazing is just about visible after 2000-25000 rounds using only single base powders. With a re-crown somewhere down the line, I would expect that barrel to last 6000-7000 rounds. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No i deer Posted January 4, 2019 Report Share Posted January 4, 2019 Sorry Pete I must of went a bit foggy reading through and I didn't look close enough at the photo, I hope my 7mm saum looks like at at 2500 shots 🤞😉, it's done just over 1000 at the mo but 1500 I hear is a good life on the saum 🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Re-Pete Posted January 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2019 I just looked up the SAUM, and if the velocities are anything to go by, it might benefit from using Hex BN'd bullets. Having said that, I'm shooting uncoated 155 grain Scenars in a 308 at 3050 fps from a 30" Bartlein with RS 52, and that's showing very little burning after 1900 rounds. RS 52 is a double base powder spiked with nitroglycerine.............. I think the quality of the barrel metal used plays a big part in this as well. Photo is 30mm into the lands. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No i deer Posted January 4, 2019 Report Share Posted January 4, 2019 I did comment on a thread not so long back that started about moly coated bullets then went on to HBN but my honest opinion is I am unsure on this or any other coatings. I was thinking it maybe fairy dust. Probaly no point starting using it in my saum now.its probaly needs using from the start. I have heard through the grapevine that one of the f open shooters I shoot with uses it so I will see what he has to say on the subject and see how many shots he is getting out of his 7mms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meles meles Posted January 12, 2019 Report Share Posted January 12, 2019 If and when these barrels eventually die and are replaced, we'd be interested in having the old ones (suitably rendered unusable) to examine in our metallurgy laboratory... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted January 12, 2019 Report Share Posted January 12, 2019 34 minutes ago, meles meles said: If and when these barrels eventually die and are replaced, we'd be interested in having the old ones (suitably rendered unusable) to examine in our metallurgy laboratory... Can't be done A barrel is a component/firearm in its own right and would therefore have to be "deactivated", ie slotted along its whole length and then a rod welded into it. I have had this discussion with the London proof house, and this is why when a barrel is replaced, it has to be destroyed and disposed of, and is the reason why I never offered anyone sectioned chambers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meles meles Posted January 12, 2019 Report Share Posted January 12, 2019 Slotting it along its whole length - in fact cutting in half along its whole length - would be a pre-requisite for a metallurgical section... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted January 12, 2019 Report Share Posted January 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, meles meles said: Slotting it along its whole length - in fact cutting in half along its whole length - would be a pre-requisite for a metallurgical section... Well it's not something you'll be doing any time soon unless you a) get a RFD or b) slot your own barrel....you won't be doing anyone else's, coz that in its own right can be constituted as an offence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meles meles Posted January 12, 2019 Report Share Posted January 12, 2019 Bear with us Bradders and allow us to benefit from your inestimable knowledge: Sequence of events Gun owner takes gun to RFD to have barrel replaced RFD removes barrel RFD cuts barrel in half, longitudinally, thus rendering it incapable of being used or 'bearing pressure' RFD gives a steel trough, for such it now is physically, to a scientist for examination Does the barrel not cease to be a barrel at stage 3 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted January 12, 2019 Report Share Posted January 12, 2019 14 minutes ago, meles meles said: Bear with us Bradders and allow us to benefit from your inestimable knowledge: Sequence of events Gun owner takes gun to RFD to have barrel replaced RFD removes barrel RFD cuts barrel in half, longitudinally, thus rendering it incapable of being used or 'bearing pressure' RFD gives a steel trough, for such it now is physically, to a scientist for examination Does the barrel not cease to be a barrel at stage 3 ? It has to be deemed/proved deactivated by submission to one of the proof houses, not only does a barrel have to be slotted full length, it also has to have a rod welded full length into it Phone the London or Birmingham Proof Houses and speak to one of the Proof Masters THE END! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meles meles Posted January 12, 2019 Report Share Posted January 12, 2019 We'd think it better to consult the Attorney General rather than the Proof Master on matters of law. 😉 We accept your withdrawal from the debate: thank you for your contribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artiglio Posted January 12, 2019 Report Share Posted January 12, 2019 Or why not , cut the chamber off, rendering the rest of the barrel back to being a blank and out with control, hand cambered section to rfd for destruction. Remaining blank/ burnt out barrel can be treated as you wish. Or would that be a contravention of legislation regarding length? Not trying to be argumentative , just seeking a solution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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