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Mick Miller

Tikka 260 T3x odd groupings

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@MarinePMI - Is this not likely an issue/conflict with Vortex/Warne where the former specifically state on their instructions for securing scope rings to 'never exceed 16-18in/lb' whereas Warne advise '25in/lb for both bases and rings'?

As it happens I secure my bases with 25in/lb and the rings with only 20in/lb so over torquing is unlike to be causing any crimping, squishing issues. The wrench I use retails at around £160, it's a pretty precise, calibrated instrument and not a shonky 'fatboy' or whatever. I'm confident I'm not exceeding any of those maximum recommendations.

Could you also link to any articles that back the assertion that Warne rings cause these issues as, despite searching, I cannot find any - I'm genuinely curious (as sometimes this can come across as accusatory on tinternet forums) - Nightforce, I understand, actually recommend Warne as an alternative to their own proprietary rings for instance. A lot of people I know own and use these without issue.

In other news, barrel is getting recrowned today :)

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Mick,

 

Here's a video showing how the rings move, and rely on the scope tube flexing to keep it in place: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nrfd6eQgLQ

And here is a conversation, with industry input, that explains that this is a known issue.  When Frank Galli and Ilya Koshkin both agree it's an issue, I tend to listen.  Both are experts in their areas of expertise, and look at real world data, vice marketing and BD speak.

https://forum.snipershide.com/threads/vertically-split-rings.6878478/page-2#post-6978483

 

And here is the original post, about scopes going down/losing zero during training courses.  Very eyeopening, and shows how this issue has gotten by without notice until you have a large sampling of rifles and glass, and see a trend of RTZ failures all having a common theme: vertically split rings.

https://forum.snipershide.com/threads/return-to-zero-failures.6483776/

 

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Any permanent damage done to the optics as a result or is it a case of 'swap rings, problem gone'? Assuming no over-tightening, farmer hands etc.?

 

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Mick,


It's hard to say.  Some scopes had permanent damage, others did not.  My suspicion is that this was due to what cartridge was being fired (amount of recoil) and where the rings were placed on the scope tube in relation to the scope's erector design (as well as FFP/SFP, each with an entirely different erector system and number of lenses).  This is one of the reasons it is often recommended to not attach rings to a FFP scope near the erector adjustment housing.  There are some that say that they should also not be near the bell of the objective or ocular lens as well (since these are typically where the focal points are, for each set of lenses (objective and ocular) of a FFP scope).  

If this sort of thing interests you, I'd highly recommend perusing some of ILya's blog postings and videos.  There is a plethora of valuable information with regards to optics (how they're made, how they work, how lenses interact, etc.) on his site.  His accent can be a challenge at times, but he really knows his stuff (plus, it's part of his day job, though not rifle scopes in particular).

http://www.darklordofoptics.com

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Should be okay then, I tend to sit mine in the middly bits [lacks technical term].

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I have a conquest hd5 which i was very unhappy with,couldnt get a clear sight picture for love nor money.Thought id bought a bad one.Reading up on the issue,as you do,i read on a nz forum where someone had the same problem which was found to be vertical split rings.I took of the warne rings and tried some old sportsmatch rings.Problem solved.Sight picture was perfect.Warne rings torquing the scope tube perhaps?

 

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Looks like its worth changing the ring Mick and giving some feedback.

The split group pattern certainly looks more like a hardware problem than a shooter or load one.

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tikka-crown.thumb.jpg.65f2f2dcafe3bdaea0f7491e048bb4fd.jpg

Crown's done. Nice work, thank you Barton GunWorks!

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On 5/10/2018 at 12:59 PM, MarinePMI said:

Mick,

 

Here's a video showing how the rings move, and rely on the scope tube flexing to keep it in place: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nrfd6eQgLQ

And here is a conversation, with industry input, that explains that this is a known issue.  When Frank Galli and Ilya Koshkin both agree it's an issue, I tend to listen.  Both are experts in their areas of expertise, and look at real world data, vice marketing and BD speak.

https://forum.snipershide.com/threads/vertically-split-rings.6878478/page-2#post-6978483

 

And here is the original post, about scopes going down/losing zero during training courses.  Very eyeopening, and shows how this issue has gotten by without notice until you have a large sampling of rifles and glass, and see a trend of RTZ failures all having a common theme: vertically split rings.

https://forum.snipershide.com/threads/return-to-zero-failures.6483776/

 

Blimey, those links are an eye-opener!

I had Warnes on a Sauer 202 years back. Never liked the things, always felt the vertical spilt was a rather counter-intuitive engineering solution that was 'different just for the sake of being different'.   Just goes to show: Never fight your intuition!

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I never liked them either.optilocks are the badgers nadgers 

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