Alternatives to 6.5 Scenar 123 & 139 for RRC

[oaken]

What are the alternatives to scenar in 6.5?

 

With them being banned from RRC (for good reason as they destroy the steels) I am wondering what is out there to try.

 

Assuming the scenars are ok for the long range stuff or is it a blanket ban?

 

Had planned to work up a 95 Vmax load for shorter ranges and vermin, but can't get them to shoot as my rifle is throated for the heavies. They just won't group with the huge jump to the lands :-/

 

Rup

[baldie]

Try a matchking....they will jump no problem.

[varminter]

May i suggest the 120 / 123 / 140 A-max to try!!!!

[Offroad Gary]

Hpbt not called a scenar. Smk, berger, .......

[terryh]

Looking at the same problem.

 

130g Bergers, A-Max, SMK offerings, need about 300 of them so what's around?

 

Terry

[Tiff]

Assuming the scenars are ok for the long range stuff or is it a blanket ban?

 

 

It will be a blanket ban I'm afraid. So far my testing has shown they destroy steels sub 300 yards and are very 'bouncy' beyond this. I think the higher lead antimony count found in the scenars core (& possibly thicker jackets) stops them deforming much, allowing them to travel beyond there intend resting place...

 

A-MAX on the other hand deform well, even at the lower velocities and seem to hardly scratch the steel.

[1967spud]

I have 140 g amax and berger vld on the shelf if thats any help

[Dustyman]

If looking to amax might be worth not considering these

 

From accurate shooter website :-(

 

Notable Bullets on the Suspended List:

22832 – 22 Cal .224 80gr A-Max

22420 – 6mm .243 75gr V-Max

24562 – 6mm .243 105gr A-Max

26101 – 6.5mm .243 100gr A-Max

29402 – 7mm .284 162gr A-Max

29405 – 7mm .285 162gr BTHP Match

30314 – 30 Cal .308 155gr A-Max Moly

30715 – 30 Cal .308 178gr BTHP Match

30733 – 30 Cal .308 208gr BTHP Match

33102 – 338 Cal .338 200gr SST

 

Note, the above selection of “notable bullets” is just a “short list” of items that caught our attention. Remember 150 bullet types are being suspended for the balance of the year. With some items on the list, partial orders will be filled, or current orders will be filled, but no new orders taken.

[oaken]

I have 140 g amax and berger vld on the shelf if thats any help

Thanks for the advice.

Think I'll try both Amax and SMK in 123gr flavour. I don't do Berger on principle.

Spud, can you help?

 

Just out of interest here's a pic of a 123gr Scenar seated 10thou off and a 95gr Vmax seated as long as I dare, 4mm into the case neck. Not surprising that they won't shoot!

 

[1967spud]

ive got 300 140 amax left act quick as these were the last from the importers for a while

[jcampbellsmith]

If looking to amax might be worth not considering these

 

From accurate shooter website :-(

 

Notable Bullets on the Suspended List:

22832 – 22 Cal .224 80gr A-Max

22420 – 6mm .243 75gr V-Max

24562 – 6mm .243 105gr A-Max

26101 – 6.5mm .243 100gr A-Max

29402 – 7mm .284 162gr A-Max

29405 – 7mm .285 162gr BTHP Match

30314 – 30 Cal .308 155gr A-Max Moly

30715 – 30 Cal .308 178gr BTHP Match

30733 – 30 Cal .308 208gr BTHP Match

33102 – 338 Cal .338 200gr SST

 

Note, the above selection of “notable bullets” is just a “short list” of items that caught our attention. Remember 150 bullet types are being suspended for the balance of the year. With some items on the list, partial orders will be filled, or current orders will be filled, but no new orders taken.

As I said before, that's not what Hornady currently state on their website:

http://www.hornady.com/support/availability

http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/2014%20Production%20List%20to%20send%204-9-14.pdf

The Hornady folk are easy to get hold of if you want to check further.

Regards

JCS

[Offroad Gary]

120gn prohunter is very accurate, not a boat tail so might loose out at range but you could pick up a lot of points at the close stuff, if it were a comp and points were awarded..

[Gandy]

Never mind bullets i'm sourcing a snorkel after the last competition zero practice.

[c18rch]

Rup,

 

you could try a really big jump with the A-Max. I've found that they are not too fussy about big jumps once you've found a sweet spot. They're probably not shooting because the neck tension isn't high enough.

[Offroad Gary]

Thanks for the advice.

Think I'll try both Amax and SMK in 123gr flavour. I don't do Berger on principle.

Spud, can you help?

Just out of interest here's a pic of a 123gr Scenar seated 10thou off and a 95gr Vmax seated as long as I dare, 4mm into the case neck. Not surprising that they won't shoot!

That scenar looks like a SMK to me.

[oaken]

There was talk about not using the scenars for the close range stuff only, but a blanket ban is a sensible approach so no more need for a close range bullet, just a long range alternative.

I take it that you don't have either in 123grain Spud?

The 139 scenars proved difficult in my rifle. I got pressure signs before I could get enough velocity, switched to 123 and all sorted. They really zip along.

So going to go with the 123's in SMK and Amax.

Gary, in that case I better pull all my scenars for fear of mixing them up with the Sierras. Where do you get your SMK's from?

[Offroad Gary]

I dont use smk's.

 

Amax on fox and target in my big rifle

Prohunter and nosler bt's on fox and deer in my sako

 

I used sceners in 308 (155) and my gongs are ok, 300-600m shots

[oaken]

I dont use smk's.

 

Ahh, seems I mistook you for someone that knew what you were talking about. :-)

 

I reckon it was someone using the new scenars that knocked the cr*p out of the steels at the last quarry shoot.

[DaveT]

I was surprised to see a ban on Scenars and will have to rapidly work up loads based upon Amax.....new supplies not easy to locate!

 

Just hope the buggers shoot as well as the Scenars do or else I am stuffed.

[brown dog]

I was surprised to see a ban on Scenars

 

Ditto.

 

I have trouble getting my head around a theory that holds normal hpbt scenars as somehow performing like APFSDS rounds - and the news isn't out anywhere else ?!

 

Could someone link to the original thread where this was explained - I'm concerned that we're in wicker-man moonraking science and analysis here and would like to re-read it - couldn't spot it just now.

 

 

Reloading's enough wasted time without being forced to start again with a cr@p proj you don't want to use - and the associated additional wasted time and money - and being left with unwanted expensive surplus cr@p .

 

Or we could leave the targets 'squeaky mint' by firing blanks? or water pistols?

[Ronin]

The jacket / construction of Scenar is no different to SMK in fact SMK hold together better - suggesting they would cause more damage to steels - I did a load of testing with various target projectiles when considering their construction and suitability of skinned game a few years ago.

 

The Scenars like A max tended to "blow up" - the SMK held their jackets.

 

Incidentally, id have thought that using soft points / bullets designed for hunting would cause more damage to steels as they impart more energy as they deform rather than fall apart.

 

Matt also has a point re steels - they are after all designed to be shot and will start looking tatty after a while - nothing that a coat of spray paint wouldn't fix…...

 

 

The decision may have been made re the use of Scenar, but id urge or ask you to have a re think ….

[Tiff]

 

 

I have trouble getting my head around a theory that holds normal hpbt scenars as somehow performing like APFSDS rounds - and the news isn't out anywhere else ?!

 

Could someone link to the original thread where this was explained - I'm concerned that we're in wicker-man moonraking science and analysis here and would like to re-read it - couldn't spot it just now.

 

 

When I was researching steel targets online, I found it is known stateside (in places) that scenars are harder on steels. They are definitely 'harder' than many other bullets - whether this is the antimony count in the core or jacket thickness, it would need basic lab testing to distinguish. It is however easy to test in the field (which I have) and the results unfortunately were not good. Nearly as bad (but acceptable) were thick jacket Berger match vld's (vs thinner jacket hunting vld's), showed that jacket thickness does make quite a difference to bullet integrity after connecting.

 

Target damage however isn't my primary concern (I can live with the damage at closer plates). There is no thread to reference with regards to the following (I don't think my research would be beneficial to the UK shooting community...), simply that I've noticed scenars are less fragile and react too much like fmj's, failing to deform under many situations. The result is they are far less inclined to stop in their intended resting place than other makes/designs and have a habit of wandering off course; as a few strategically placed correx sheets revealed!

[Offroad Gary]

Ahh, seems I mistook you for someone that knew what you were talking about. :-)

I reckon it was someone using the new scenars that knocked the cr*p out of the steels at the last quarry shoot.

Ahh, seems I mistook you for someone that knew what you were talking about. :-)

I reckon it was someone using the new scenars that knocked the cr*p out of the steels at the last quarry shoot.

I said "don't", not "haven't ever".

 

Just use the scenars Rup, its not like your going to hit many targets...(joke...he he)

[Dustyman]

Apologies , stand corrected. Anyone know where there are any 6 mm 205 gr amax's at all. ?

[tackb]

Apologies , stand corrected. Anyone know where there are any 6 mm 205 gr amax's at all. ?

They would be about 2.5" long , what twist do they need?