Millwall Paul Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Well I've finally got some money together - about £1100 to cover a new 223 with mod, rings and bases. It will be used for foxing and possibly having a go at shooting longer range bunnys. I like the Tikka T3 for the job, but are there any other rifles of the same accuracy / quality that I should consider? Also what do people reccomend for the mod - I have always used the T8's but once again are there any better ones for my budget that I should consider? Am just trying to get peoples oppinions / experiences to aid my decision rather than just the salesman in the shop trying to sell me what they have. Thanks Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Paul, the Tikka is a fine rifle - the sheer number sold is a testament to how well they work in the field. Prices have risen substantially though, and the base T3 is not the bargain it was a couple or three years ago. If you're considering a T3 for foxing you have a choice betwen the 'Lite' with skinny barrel and the heavier-barrel 'Varmint', the latter giving better accuracy at the expense of more weight to lug around. Tikka quotes the Varmint as having a very 'fast' 1-8" rifling twist which if correct gives you the option of heavier match bullets and similar for longer range use, although in practice 55s meet most people's requirements. If you shop around, I think you'll get a new one plus mounts and moddy within your budget - just. The only real alternative I can see is the Remy 700 in SPS Varmint, SPS Tactical, VS (Varmint Synthetic), or PSS (Police) versions. All have heavy barrels. The SPS Varmint and VS share the same 26" barrelled action with 1-12" rifling twist; the Tactical and PSS have 1-9" tubes, but the Tactical is 20", the PSS 26". VS and PSS have really good H-S Precision bedding bearing-block stocks; the SPS Varmint a much cheaper hollow plastic job (like the Tikka); the Tactical has the Hogue 'Overmolded' stock (nylon shell with soft grippy rubber on top), that comes somewhere in between. The VS and PSS have become expensive - you'd only manage either within your budget by buying secondhand. Always a consideration - the large fieldsports dealers see quite a few, often with moderator and mounts still on. The SPS series rifles offer good value, usually shoot very well, but with a bit of 'tarting-up' (trigger job and muzzle recrowning) can be made to shoot brilliantly. Shop around and the base SPS Varmint and Tactical rifles can be found at £650 with screwcut muzzle leaving you change to fund improvements once you've bought mounts and moddy - essential to specify screwcut barrel to dealers though as they're also supplied without this feature at slightly less money. South Yorkshire Shooting Supplies have this forum's luminary ('Baldie') do semi-(and for that matter full too) custom jobs based on the SPS rifles, especially the Varmint. See their website (www.rimfiremagic.co,uk), the cheapest version with a Choate stock just about meeting your budget. The Varmint does have the 'slower' 1-12" twist, ideal for 40-55gn bullets which I reckon is fine for Charlie, but as a paper-puncher will let others comment on. The SPS Tactical with its 20" 1-9" barrel handles 70-75gn bullets, is a handy piece and the loss of barrel length incurs no real penalty in most sporting shooting situations. I have one and it shoots very well indeed. It comes with the 'improved' X-Pro factory trigger, but you want somebody like Baldie to tune it up or fit a better replacement as well as the crowning job. The Hogue stock is pretty good, although not up to the standards of H-S Precision models or decent aftermarket jobs from Bell & Carlsson, Choate and so on, especially in the rigidity stakes. (Remember, the Tikka is no great shakes here either!) Once you've got a rifle, the Remington offers more scope for upgrades if you want to improve your rifle as finances allow - huge numbers of aftermarket bits, and every gunsmith is familiar with them, sort of Ford Mondeos of the sporting rifle world. If you want to upgrade to a different make / model, both the T3s and 700s sell easily enough, always plenty of buyers and not much between them there I'd have thought. So, it's swings and roundabouts. Me? I'd go for a Remy plus SYSS basic upgrades - what will happen to my 700SPS Tactical in due course. But, I know the Remys and like them. Others will tell you Tikka. Your choice. What I can't think of is any real competitor to these rifles within your budget, unless you go for a secondhand Sako. Laurie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Just to add to Lauries comprehensive reply: The current Tikka's (T3) are ALL long action and have shortening pieces in the mags to allow one action do all "saving" on manufacturing costs. The Remingtons are built to action length. The 8 /9 twist barrel offers better versatilty in terms of bullet weight choice. Aftermarket stocks are avaiable for both rifles from several companies in the case of the Rem and three in the case of the Tikka. You could buy secondhand rifle and use the spare cash to upgrade the stock, or buy new and updarde at a later date - if you were to buy the base model in either you do get a truly awful ssynthetic flexible piece of junk as a stock..... Both are decent rifles - I would aggree with Lauries analogy of the Rem being the Ford Escort of the rifle world, the current Tikka is the Skoda! Earlier Tikkas (595's) would offer a better option IMHO if you want the Tkka brand or Sako the better quality option. If you wanted to consider an alternative to the 223, I know of a brand new Rem 700 VSSF (stainless varmint fluted in HS precision stock in 22-250 thats on the rack at 1100 but open to negotiation. The latter isnt mine, but I am happy to pass contact details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22/250 foxer Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 get a secondhand one and save some money for a scope. sako,tikka,remmy. all good rifles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooster Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Although i am new to c/f i looked at Tikkas and Remmys. I have not got a lot of money or know how so i want something that shoots out of the box. I bought a Howa s/s varmint laminate and i am very happy with it, solidly built and accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-NZ Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 ..several companies in the case of the Rem and three in the case of the Tikka. You could buy secondhand rifle and use the spare cash to upgrade the stock, or buy new and updarde at a later date - if you were to buy the base model in either you do get a truly awful ssynthetic flexible piece of junk as a stock..... Both are decent rifles - I would aggree with Lauries analogy of the Rem being the Ford Escort of the rifle world, the current Tikka is the Skoda! .. Owning three synthetic Rems and one SS T3, I can say the T3 stock is way more rigid than the SPS Rem. The VS stock is another story. Accuracy of all is highly acceptable, the basic blued syn SPS Rem I got for the kids shooting far better than it deserves to as I recently posted. Your analogy with Skoda is correct Andy but for the wrong reason- the latest Skodas as basically slightly stripped-down VWs and therefore absolutely nothing like the Skodas of old. One of my solicitor patients who's a considered buyer is onto this second new-gen Skoda and very happy with it. Chris-NZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millwall Paul Posted October 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Thanks for everyones advice, Rooster I also like the look of the Howa's, what sort of accuracy do you get with factory ammo? I do like the Tikka's a lot as well as the Sako's. I really would like a rifle that just shoot's straight from the shop as I have a habit of thinking about things to do i.e. restock recrown etc but never get around to having things done, which is one reason why I favour buying guns that hopefully don't need additional work to require them to shoot. I have looked at guntrader and there are several second hand 223's that take my fancy but am unsure how to tell if they will shoot or if they've been traded in as they are shot out. Is the only way to tell by having them borescoped, or is there other tell tale signs to be looking out for? I have shot the remmy's with the plastic stocks and can see exactly what Ronin means, would it be better if I went for a remmy 700 to go for a wooden stock to prevent the flex? Also when I last shot a 700 it was on a rifle safety course and I found that when zeroed of a bipod it was very accurate, but then shooting it of the sticks to get the same poi meant that I had to aim about 4" to the right and 5" low. Is this normal for the 700's or was I just unlucky as I've never had this problem with either of the Sako's that I have. Thanks again for all the good advice. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Chris I was referring to the new shape Skoda's mate (cheap version of a good brand) Paul be very careful about the Howa's the trigger is sometimes, "difficult" to ajust to a acceptable pull without creep and there are no decent aftermarket triggers that I would recommend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Millwall, If i was on the look out for a 223 i would be seriously considering THIS Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrek Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Straightpull black rifle!!! AR-15, SGC, BRADLY ARMS etc etc, i got one for S**t's and giggles, Cant keep my hands off it!! never had such a handy little weapon which can strech out to 600 yards when i do my bit!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejg223 Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 CZ would at least have a real 223 length action and very accurate. But then any 223 should be accurate. Just about all cheap plastic stocks are useless for any precision hunting. Be it Remmy, Howa or others a pillar bedded walnut or laminate stock would be better than the plastic., only to be bettered by a good composite stock. I would get a stainless remmy or stainless howa. as mentioned before a bit of fine tuning and you'll have a great rifle. edi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch_egg Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 How about a soutern gun company AR-15 straight pull? They seem to have a very good following from site members, even if they don't openly admit it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch_egg Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Just to clarify doesn't have to be a southern gun company AR-15 but any of the derivitive Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldon Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 When I was after a 243 I wanted myself to like the T3's but it didn't happen. They just felt so cheap alongside Sako's. No regrets buying my Sako secondhand. Its what I really wanted and so that is what it had to be. Listen to your heart and you might already know the answer. For that money you should find a secondhand Sako although prices have risen ridiculously in recent times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldon Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Are some of you guys trying to tell me something ? I have a Remmington and a ford mondeo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir-slots-alot Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 When I was after a 243 I wanted myself to like the T3's but it didn't happen. They just felt so cheap alongside Sako's. For that money you should find a secondhand Sako although prices have risen ridiculously in recent times. Without stating the bleeding obvious - They are cheap compared to Sako's - About £500 pound cheaper. You can't expect the same level of refinement. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldon Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 So ok slots alot I was comparing a secondhand sako with a new T3 so that negates the price difference does it not? certainly not £500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
menial 1 Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 My next .223 will be one of these, I think it would tick all your boxes Millwall: http://www.clcweb.net/Shooting/Tactical_Sh...n_m700_ltr.html I've only heard good things about these and it would make a decent base rifle for customising later on. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-NZ Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Didn't even know they existed Pete. DEF looks a good starting point Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyCM Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 I was in this position earlier this year. Decided to get a nearly new Remington .223 Tactical (20" 1:9 twist) then had a few tweaks, threaded M18x1 - that looks good on the heavy barrel ASE UTRA CQB mod added - that's quiet jewell trigger Picatinny rail topped with a Swarovski 8x50 main use foxing truck gun it performs really well in this capacity being nice and compact even with mod on 50g / 55g & 69g shoot really well with Varget & RL15 the Hogue overmoulded (standard) stock may get changed one day but for now it is performing great I would not want to walk all day with it though! Cheers AndyCM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Personally I'd buy a CZ American and put an ase utra mod on it. I have an S5 which is brilliant and small too, or you could get that new over barrel one they do (I foget the name but it's a stainless stretched and slimmer version of the S5). CZs are great rifles and the short action is perfect. The ase mods are bomb proof and not as big as the competition. I wouldn't buy a Tikka again, they shoot well but feel very cheap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skany Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 IF I was going to go for a 223 id be intrested in a cz varmint in the decent kevlar type stock(no idea wht brand stock it is!) nice little action that suits the round & a 1-9 twist i belive! silentsoles has one & its a neat looking rifle! cheers Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22/250 foxer Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 dont be put off have alook at the mod 70 winchester in 223. i have one in 22/250 and i wouldnt chage it for the world. the stcoks are good and soild to with alloy bed block. can be picked up cheap now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 I'd buy an AR15 from me , hand built right here in Blighty. It helps the economy you know ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 dont be put off have alook at the mod 70 winchester in 223. i have one in 22/250 and i wouldnt chage it for the world. the stcoks are good and soild to with alloy bed block. can be picked up cheap now I ordered a model 70 back in may, it's still not left the factory as yet! If you go for a '70, make it a used one. I'm just in the process of telling them to keep mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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