Astigmatism ***warning*** red dots in scopes/sights

[Scotch_egg]

Astigmatism isn’t something I had ever considered as an issue other than I have to pay extra for my contact lenses. 
 

I recently purchased a holosun red dot optic from a member here on ukvarminting. Cracking guy and I’ll buy from him again. So nothing to do with him. 
 

all the visuals of the “dot” online are a perfect circle. 

 

The image I see is a star burst, with broken light everywhere. Not the circle I hoped for  

It reminded me of the illuminated dot on the Zeiss V8 scopes I have had. I thought it was just an issue with the illumination. I bought three of them and thought that’s how it is. hated it and sold them on as considerable loss. 
 

Google is my friend as I knew the red dot wasn’t at fault. 
 

This is where I discovered my issue. I’m sure there will be many in my shoes who have astigmatism. 
 

single centre dots are not good for us. you will think the illumination is crap. 

So who is selling a Schmidt Polar L7 reticle lol
 

 

[Andy RV]

I also share your frustrations, however I have found that some red dots are worst than others.

I had to take a picture of the dot to prove to myself it was me rather than the equipment!

[mitch308]

I found out this was a thing when I bought a vortex razor red dot, when I complained to vortex that the dot was like a star, they explained it was my eyes and a very common issue, I also bought an acog for my ar with a red triangle reticle , when I looked through it there were 2 overlapping triangles, never was sure which one to put on the target, so had to reluctantly sell it

[ds1]

I have an astigmatism and it is true some dots bloom more than others. However this is much better than iron sights where your eyes are trying to focus on three things at the same time ( target, front sight and rear sight) sharpe front sight focus has been the mantra for many decades ( not altogether true but that’s another story).

Scotch, you need to look through the dot not at it. You want your focus on the target not the dot, they’re in the same focal plane, everything is target focused - the blooming becomes a lot less of a distraction then. It takes range time to adjust to doing this. After 30 years  of using iron sights on pistols it took me about 2k rounds to get comfortable with one on a pistol, although I have always used one on an Ar15. For clients we have red dots on I think all the carbines but only one or two on pistols. It’s something that takes more time and practice on a pistol than a two or four day course. If you stick with it however the juice is worth the squeeze.

Try an Eotech- they are holographic, personally I’ve found the Holosun 510c to be a better cleaner dot for me but your mileage may vary ( I still use Eotech’s I think 4 of them as they offer other advantages- but not the dot for me). On pistols I prefer Trijicon SRO and RMR, not the best glass but for me better than a Holosun 507c I tried. I have a couple of Docter and Meopta red dots that are also good. Some dots starburst less than others to my crap eyes. Also if you are using an open emitter ( 507c /RMR etc) give the emitter diode a wipe over with a q-tip it helps a lot  if it’s clean. Scopes try a S&B with LRR reticle, love mine.

[Aggy]

I have the same could ndition and actually found out after buying a Eotec sight funny thing is I could see through a cheep copy but not the real thing , I  have a vortex strike eagle with an illuminated halo and that’s fine too ,I think it’s only the holographic image that goes fuzzy to me ? 

[John MH]

To rule out an issue with the dot on the sight rotate the sight and if the image bloom remains (assuming its an irregular shape) the same and does not rotate through the 360 degree rotation its your eyes that are the problem.

[Chanonry]

Me too.

Saw a star. Took a photo with the iPhone and its a perfect circle. 

[tikkat3rob]

Use a prism sight guys they do not distort for anybody who has an astigmatism 

 

40 minutes ago, Chanonry said:

Me too.

Saw a star. Took a photo with the iPhone and its a perfect circle. 

23 hours ago, Scotch_egg said:

Astigmatism isn’t something I had ever considered as an issue other than I have to pay extra for my contact lenses. 
 

I recently purchased a holosun red dot optic from a member here on ukvarminting. Cracking guy and I’ll buy from him again. So nothing to do with him. 
 

all the visuals of the “dot” online are a perfect circle. 

 

The image I see is a star burst, with broken light everywhere. Not the circle I hoped for  

It reminded me of the illuminated dot on the Zeiss V8 scopes I have had. I thought it was just an issue with the illumination. I bought three of them and thought that’s how it is. hated it and sold them on as considerable loss. 
 

Google is my friend as I knew the red dot wasn’t at fault. 
 

This is where I discovered my issue. I’m sure there will be many in my shoes who have astigmatism. 
 

single centre dots are not good for us. you will think the illumination is crap. 

So who is selling a Schmidt Polar L7 reticle lol
 

 

23 hours ago, Andy RV said:

I also share your frustrations, however I have found that some red dots are worst than others.

I had to take a picture of the dot to prove to myself it was me rather than the equipment!

 

[Scrumbag]

I have astigmatism but quite like red dots.

Couple of things I found

Generally, quality pays. Of the 3 reflex sights I have (Leica, Burris Fastire III and Geco) the Leica is the least "flary". Another thing to consider is brightness. Generally the brighter you have the dot, the more star effect.

I also find if I shoot with my glasses on I don't have issues.

Best wishes,

Scrummy

[ds1]

I wanted to try a few different dots: 5-45 S&B pm2 LRR reticle on an AXMC, Eotech EXPs2 on a Sig mpx, Trijicon SRO on a STI, Noblex / Docter on a Cz p10c and Meopta ZD RD on a AR15 9mm. All side by side, just looking in the garden at a 50m target. I wear contact lenses and I have an astigmatism.

S&B pm2 LRR 5-45, day light visible dot and cross. For my eyes it’s perfect- no blooming from intensity 7 to 10 ( daylight visible starts at 7 and ends at 10). From 5x to 45x no blooming through the mag range also the ocular diopter setting on the scope is at 0, ( maybe the optician got my prescription right). 

Eotech EXPs2, Holographic,  68 moa donut and 1 moa dot. At anything but the highest intensity they look very pixelated but no distortion or blooming. Can acquire the dot off-axis very fast. I tried it against my 512 and 522 also - same pixilation.

Trijicon SRO, 5 moa dot. It blooms at higher intensities but not much at lower levels, there is some dot distortion- not much but looks almost like an egg on its side. It’s the bench mark for comp pistol red dots - big window means you don’t loose the dot so easily and have a bigger field of view.

Noblex / Docter, sight 2 with 3.5 moa dot, this one has auto brightness adjust only - blooms, dot is circular. Low light less blooming but still noticeable. 

Meopta ZD RD, 3 moa dot, to my eyes although this is a closed emitter it is identical to what I see with the Noblex. Has the advantage of manual brightness adjust. You have to go to a ‘dull’ level of brightness to take out most of the blooming.

Thats just what my eyes see. 

[Scotch_egg]

I have read through all the replies thanks gents. 
 

I hadn’t considered the different types of site. I forgot I used an Eotech holographic site at work a few years ago before I needed glasses. I don’t remember suffering the blooming, it wasn’t a single dot reticle and I could hold tight groups when we shot on the 200 yard range. 
 

After taking advice from @ds1 I have had some time practicing focusing on target. Also keeping the brightness right down helps. the light bleed is constant in the same point in the dot. 
 

It would be nice to see the same reticle I see through my phone 😂

 

I’ll see how I get on at the range and then look at a holographic alternative. I just want something smaller than Eotech. 

[ds1]

Scotch, for the size the Eotech the window is small ( they stuff quite a few prisms in there). It’s the pixilated reticle that bugs me though.

The Holosun 510c (not holographic) has a nicer form factor. I would try this and also they do a green dot version of it. It might help your eyes also………and about half the price of an Eotech.

I have tried the 510c on the Sig mpx- it’s strange but I see more dot movement with the 510c than Eotech. What I mean is doing fast double taps ( you don’t have that in the U.K. except on 22lr) then the Eotech appears not to move but the 510c I see the dot track a bit under recoil. I think (guessing) that under recoil the 510c goes off axis so you loose the dot for a fraction of a second, the brain registers this as movement. The Eotech has a much larger on-axis tolerance so you always see the reticle and your brain doesn’t register the movement the same. Although the same movement is there.  Total guess but shooting them on two Sig pcc’s side by side I can see the difference.

Eotech has 68moa outer circle and 1 moa dot

510c has 65moa circle and 2moa dot

Both available with red or green reticles.

 

[Scotch_egg]

What kind of groups should I be expecting? 

[ds1]

Scotch - depends what it’s on - 9mm pistol I can do 5cm @25m off hand ( STI pistol).

9mm carbine 5cm @ 50m.

223, 50m off a bipod 2cm to 3cm depending on ammunition and Ar or AK rifles. 

For me Its not about fantastic accuracy but how fast you can shoot with enough accuracy, things like FOV for transitions are important for me.  I appreciate that there are different priorities in the U.K. with only .22 and shotty  being semi auto. 

Not one of my best but at around 15m double taps on 3 targets, I don’t loose the dot on the double tap or transition.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oIm5xE6VT1cmQIM-AJrHhVNohAxZigmW/view?usp=drivesdk