auquhollie Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 I am thinking on getting a new rifle built and i fancy the look of the ballistics of the 7mm WSSM. It would just be a stalking rifle and long range work. Does anyone shoot one ?. If so what are the pros and cons ??. Down range accuarcy and energy that sort of thing ? Please dont bombard me with "its too big for deer" or "it wont do anything a 308 cant do" etc etc I just fancy a new rifle that has good ballistics. Just something other than the normal, and exciting. Cheers Ads.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 WSM yes, WSSM NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Step away from this thought, and give yourself a shake! There was an extensive teo or three consequetive month article in Target Sports about this case recently done by Laurie Holland who is very thorough to say the least, if I can find them I will find a way of getting them to you, unless you subscribe? Nothing wrong with 7mm's and deer, they compliment each other very well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 As one living on the side of the pond where these WSM and WSSM's are produced, I must again chime in that if they are popular in the UK, then you are the only shooting group they are popular with. The Winny Shorts are a hugely dead item here in the States... and especially the WSSM line. Retailers can't give the guns or the ammunition away. For a while folks were buying the rifles at cheap prices and stripping them for actions. If you want a nice 7mm try the 7mm-08 or even the 280 Remington. Both are fine cartridges with good reputations for accuracy. The 280 will handle anything with the right bullet. (Waiting to hear the whine about wanting a "short action"... ) ~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingzy Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 Andrew, I have a pal that has a wssm and he loves it. I keep telling him that they are dead in the water......particularly with the only manufacturers of brass being Winchester (i am open for correction on this). I am also trying to make him see sense as a few years ago, the wssm's in some shops here went for less than 50% of their initial selling price (alarm bells ringing) Basically, do the american shooters feel that this cartridge type will die away? Ads, get a 300wsm or are you looking for something a little exotic J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest northernchris Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 Ads DONT DO IT MATE!!! If your after something a wee bitty different what about a 6.5 WSM ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldie Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 Laurie burnt the throat out beyond use on the .243 wssm in 900 rounds. Not one of them 900 was any bloody good either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auquhollie Posted January 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Thanks guys for the replys. I actually mucked up there it was the WSM i was looking at not the WSSM. I am kean on the 7mm as it has really good ballistics with down range accuracy to go with it. It also has a factory case that i dont have to dick about with. Just prep,load and shoot. After buying my Sako PPC i have taken a real shine to it, it feels just right when im laying behind her and the action is real smooth. Its just a shame they dont do one in 7 WSM. Maybe i could get a S\H 300 win mag in sako and have her re-barreled ? I will see what happens. I guess a donar rifle would need the magnum bolt face. What other calibres is there in the same bolt face that sako does ? Is it just the 300 win mag and the 270 WSM ?? So is there anyone that shoots a 7mm WSM ? Not the WSSM..........Noooooooooooo!!!!!! Ads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Andrew, I have a pal that has a wssm and he loves it. I keep telling him that they are dead in the water......particularly with the only manufacturers of brass being Winchester (i am open for correction on this). I am also trying to make him see sense as a few years ago, the wssm's in some shops here went for less than 50% of their initial selling price (alarm bells ringing) Basically, do the american shooters feel that this cartridge type will die away? I have found that many shooters are slow to condemn the gun/cartridge they hung the moon on before getting it. I have heard nothing good about them: feeding and accurcy problems abound. I don't know anybody who has shot one enough top burn the throat out of it but I believe it. Most gave up: in my area the 22WSSM became the favorite rifle to donate for a sportsmans club raffle because they couldn't sell them anyhow. American shooters are voicing their opinion about this WSSM cartridge line the best way they can: They ain't buy'in it! Winchester was heading for the rocks and hoped that the parade of WSM and WSSM cartridges would stimulate sales. They have been using this technique for better than 100 years but now with the Internet, word travels fast and well around the gun-writers that Winchester had tucked into their vest pocket. It didn't work. These cartridges won't do anything that a "standard" chambering won't do. They are exotic, to an extent, and I can understand the desire for exotica one's shooting equipment. I have a few exotics myself. The WSM's are hanging on but not by much. I went to a large gun-show today and WSSM and WSM gear was littering the exhibitor's tables with not much movement. Time will tell, but I think they are fading fast...~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonhunter Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 I have found that many shooters are slow to condemn the gun/cartridge they hung the moon on before getting it. I have heard nothing good about them: feeding and accurcy problems abound. I don't know anybody who has shot one enough top burn the throat out of it but I believe it. Most gave up: in my area the 22WSSM became the favorite rifle to donate for a sportsmans club raffle because they couldn't sell them anyhow. American shooters are voicing their opinion about this WSSM cartridge line the best way they can: They ain't buy'in it! Winchester was heading for the rocks and hoped that the parade of WSM and WSSM cartridges would stimulate sales. They have been using this technique for better than 100 years but now with the Internet, word travels fast and well around the gun-writers that Winchester had tucked into their vest pocket. It didn't work. These cartridges won't do anything that a "standard" chambering won't do. They are exotic, to an extent, and I can understand the desire for exotica one's shooting equipment. I have a few exotics myself. The WSM's are hanging on but not by much. I went to a large gun-show today and WSSM and WSM gear was littering the exhibitor's tables with not much movement. Time will tell, but I think they are fading fast...~Andrew Wow all those negatives please email Vince that and tell him he is stupid before he shot the UK record.................... In a nut shell it is a great caliber for tinkering if you have the time and money If one starts counting pennies then it is not for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Quite a few of us shoot 7mm WSM in some form or another (7mm WSM, 7mm / 300WSM and 7mm / 270WSM) It is a very good calibre and one that is pretty accurate "out the box" As an alternative to the 7mm magnums it offers no increase in velocity, but has none of the problems associated with belted magnum cases. As already mentioned Vince holds the current small group at 1000 yds with a 7mm / 300 WSM. Alot of F Class shooters use it as do BR shooters. This in itself should speak volumes about its accuacy potential. There are some interesting points that need noting: The straight 7mm WSM has a neck thats about .030" shorter than the 270 and 300 WSM varients (which is why target shooters use the longer necked cases for their disciplines) You can make the 7mm WSM load and feed reliably through a short action (but you either need to buy a WSM action specifically made to do this or alter the bolt face of a S/A donor. Velocities - 180 grain bullets will be driven at around 2900 fps lighter bullets obviously far faster.... The 7mm bullets available offer perhaps the most varied choice around in terms of bullet weights and BC's only surpassed by .030" cals. Its a bit thumpy to shoot in a light rifle, but this is easily recitified with a barke, moderator or recoil reducer and if its a stalking rifle you probably will not notice it anyway! My own F Class gun is a 7mm/270WSM, I await delivery (still ) of a 7mm/300WSM stalking rifle I commissioned a while ago and intend on building a test rifle for a 7mm Bergara barrel I want to try - this will be on a Howa, the chamber will be a 7mm WSM with a fitted neck. I like 7mm WSM by the way! If you wanted to ook for others across the pond that use this calibre look on Long Range Hunting or Precision Long Range Hunting forums and do a search for Ric Horst and maybe Chris Matthews (of Longshot rifles) Chris has built numerous hunting rifles in this chambering and Ric had a pair made in this calibre that perform extremely well, there is a piece about the "twins" on the 6mmBR site by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 When it comes to popularity, here in the US, there are a lot of negatives. You'll note that my comments were mostly directed at the WSSM's which was the subject of the question. Never said that the WSM's weren't accurate, I said they weren't overly popular. ...and a 1000 yard record isn't won by the rifle or the caliber. As an aside, and thinking that shooting markets/trends that evolve or die here are sometimes slow to make it across the Pond, I would again like to warn the members of this Board that primers are drying up here at an ever increasing rate. I was at a gunshow yesterday and the dealer that sells components had a piddling collection of Winchester Large Rifle, a few thousand CCI's, and some Magtech primers. No Federals, or Match primers. Normally this fellow has mountains of primers at a reasonable price but this time his selection was poor and the prices were about 20% higher than 3 months ago. I fear it won't be long before these shortages reach you.~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auquhollie Posted January 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Thanks lads, a lott of good info there. I will read them later and have a good think. I do think im set on a 7mm though. Just a case of deciding which one Ads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest northernchris Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Or even a 7mm Booboo 140 Nosler BT @ 3700 will put um on their arse Ads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redfox Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 The 7-08 is a very useable cal and all the components are readily available, like cases etc. Easy on the shoulder and reaches out more than far enough for anyone. Londonhunter Before getting shirty with Andrew you should look back at his credentials as posted by MarinePM1, they are beyond question and light years in front of yours, I have no doubt, rudeness has no place in a friendly discussion anyway. Redfox MarinePM1 "quote" Finally, I'd like to make a point about something. I've known Andrew for nigh on ten years now. The man has forgotten more about reloading than I have learned in my 20yrs reloading experience. You name it, and quite honestly, he's done it. Paperpatch, black powder, casting, swaging jacketed bullets, paper cartridges made from scratch (potassium nitrate soaked paper, rolled into a tube and tied to the bullet with powder enclosed for a double rifle he had). The guns I have seen that he's built are simply astounding and bespeak abreadth and depth of knowledge of firearms and munitions that few of us (IMHO) will ever master. I sometimes give him grief that he doesn't take a picture of his "collection" to show that breadth. Usually he just shrugs and mumbles something about "yeah, well, its just stuff I've collected over the years". Perhaps now he will(???). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Thanks but The Marine exaggerates. I am wrong plenty.~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bambi-basher Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 One niche the WSSMs are making a impact are when chambered in a AR15 upper, this is allowing the AR 15 when chambered in a WSSM 6/.25/6.5/7mm cartridge to have superior ballistics to a AR 10 or any other 308 based cartridge. It is not without its problems, too thick necks(neck turning a must) and brass needs a lot of other work. Winchester doing half a job. Best rgds B-b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejg223 Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 I just made a stock and bedded a 270wsm rifle for a friend. He actually wanted a 270 but for some reason deliveries where late from howa and a wsm was available. Decision was on a 270wsm. Nice magnum sporter fluted 22" Lothar Walther barrel, trigger tuned to a dream, made in Germany. I made a ultra light stock with some modifications to suit and a risky bedding job with a new carbon fiber blend bedding material. (some winner) Good thing is with a friend one can take a few risks because one could fix the problem if.... Anyway now a few weeks later my friend has taken several deer including a red hind at over 300m and a spectacular shot at a running deer off the shoulder. The longer I look at it, the performance of a shortish light accurate rifle in 270 or 7wsm is not to be knocked. Even with factory ammo around 1/2 ". go for it Ads edi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldie Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 When it comes to popularity, here in the US, there are a lot of negatives. You'll note that my comments were mostly directed at the WSSM's which was the subject of the question. Never said that the WSM's weren't accurate, I said they weren't overly popular. ...and a 1000 yard record isn't won by the rifle or the caliber. As an aside, and thinking that shooting markets/trends that evolve or die here are sometimes slow to make it across the Pond, I would again like to warn the members of this Board that primers are drying up here at an ever increasing rate. I was at a gunshow yesterday and the dealer that sells components had a piddling collection of Winchester Large Rifle, a few thousand CCI's, and some Magtech primers. No Federals, or Match primers. Normally this fellow has mountains of primers at a reasonable price but this time his selection was poor and the prices were about 20% higher than 3 months ago. I fear it won't be long before these shortages reach you.~Andrew What a cracking post Andrew. People who shoot 1000 regularly know just how much truth is in that statement. But they wont admit that lady luck has a damn sight more input than the gun, or the calibre. i keep warning friends to keep primers topped up.....we cant get br4,s federals, are but a distant memory, even large pistol are tricky. Four of us made a detour to norman clarkes only a couple of weeks ago, because he had some br4,s. Smashing guys there , i must say too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Baldie: The Lady favors the Prepared, though! I made the trip to Billings, Montana today to go to Sportman's Warehouse, a large nation-wide chain that specializes in reloading and shooting. Again, three weeks after my last visit, they had no rifle primers at all. Not a one. They had huge shelves empty but for an assortment of pistol primers. I have taken to buying 2K CCI primers at the local trading post every month and storing them in air tight containers. I fear he will dry up eventually, too. I have two unopened cases of Remington 9 1/2 and 7 1/2 primers that will be my last resort. (I like Rem primers!) It's sad. I have three or four thousand BR-4's in storage that I seldom use. If you were here I'd give them to you.~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-NZ Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 ..I made the trip to Billings, Montana today to go to Sportman's Warehouse, a large nation-wide chain that specializes in reloading and shooting. Again, three weeks after my last visit, they had no rifle primers at all. Not a one. They had huge shelves empty but for an assortment of pistol primers. I have taken to buying 2K CCI primers at the local trading post every month and storing them in air tight containers. I fear he will dry up eventually, too. I have two unopened cases of Remington 9 1/2 and 7 1/2 primers that will be my last resort. (I like Rem primers!) ...~Andrew Here's what my buddy in Oklahoma had to say yesterday when I asked him: Yes, same with powder, bullets and ammo. Many stores have seriously depleted inventory of guns as well. Mentioned a couple weeks ago the shelves were nearly empty at the big sporting goods store in N. OKC. Primers now about 3 cents each where you can find them locally. Chris-NZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarinePMI Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 To echo Andrew's comments, I was a t a Sportsman's Warehouse over the Christmas break (back in Texas), and it was an eye opener. I too stock up on stuff when possible, so it isn't impacting me much (save trying to get some decent .308 brass these days), but the shelves there were bare! I had a $175 gift certificate and couldn't find much to buy that I didn't already have or they were just plain out of. Walked out with some .303 dies (the .303 is not an overly popular caliber here), some case trimmers for 9.3x62 (again not popular here) and hornet, and that was it. Still had $100+ dollars on the gift card (don't have Sportman's Warehouse in San Diego). Ended up giving the card back to my dad, telling him to spend the remaining balance on himself for camping gear, when he goes out with my brother and nephews... Waiting for the shortage to come to an end... Oh, and I'm not exaggerating Andrew, just stating observations... BTW, are you sure you don't want to part with that Lee-Enfield Trials rifle? ...Still working on that No1. Mk 1. Hoping to turn it into a wannabe Lee Speed...sort of... Managed to pick up the flat stock I need to make express sights for it...fun times... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Thanks but I'll keep the Trials Rifle, Marine. (I have some good designs for express sights though it is more time efficient to machine a base with a dovetail in it and pick up the three leaf inserts from BRownells. You still get the Armorer's discount, right?) I am amazed that my local trading post still has primers. I pick up 2 K of the CCI Lg Rifle for $27/1000 every month now. Bought 3K Federal Small Pistol for the Hornet and a couple K each Lg and Small Pistol Magnums. Evidently he bought them by the truck-load last year so he is still pretty well healed. ~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarinePMI Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Andrew, Yep, I still get the armorer's discount. I'll take what ever designs you have. The one I have has no dimensions to it, just the basic design for the base with a dovetail cut underneath for the flat spring stock to fit in. Not to entirely hijack the thread, but I did spend some time this weekend modifying a weaver rail to accept an EOTech sight. Apparently Weaver (in their infinite wisdom) made the weaver rails for a Benelli SBE II shotgun only with two slots so it would only take a proper scope. Fun times... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auquhollie Posted January 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 well I think I have made up my mind. I have been looking into the wsm and it seems to be what I am looking for. The 6.5 is for sure a nice round but it’s like the clitt of the gun world. I just want something that is a little different. From what I have been reading about the 7 wsm the long range accuracy is right up there with the best. It also has the energy to take any UK species of deer out to the longer ranges. The rifle itself, I haven’t put much thought into YET Stock will be a McMillan hunter. Action will definitely be a predator short or maybe a long to allow to reach out into the lands, not sure yet. Barrel, Any thoughts ??? will need to be a 1-9 twist to accommodate the 180 bergers Mod, I fancy a wildcat. What are they like ? Trigger, jewel Scope will be my night force 8-32. Ads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Hey marine PMI, Whats with the Union Jack shirt you are wearing in your pic buddy, or are you really a closet Britisher Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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