Shot My First Batch...

[roundyuk]

So today I went to Bisley on Short Siberia 100yrd and went through my test loads for my first home loads, bottom line is everything went BANG as it should! :-P

 

However I am really confused at the results....

 

Rifle is a Howa 1500 24" 1/10 twist, I was shooting off a bag as I wanted to avoid any flex from the bipod issue these can suffer with.

 

The loads being tested were all .308 Hornady 178gr BTHP @ COL 2.800" using VIHT N150 - I ran through 34.0gr, 35.6gr, 37.2gr, 38.8gr, 40.4gr, 42.0gr (5 rounds of each, and one shot onto it's test area in sequence (A, B, C, D, A, B, C, D etc)

 

34.0gr was an inch group, but after that they all got much wider!!

 

35.6gr 1.5"

 

37.2gr garbage

 

38.8gr 1.5" if you don't include a pulled shot

 

40.4gr 3/4" but there was one top and bottom seriously pulled

 

42gr garbage

 

Now what I should say is that the bench was bloody awful - it was so wobbly even pushing it with my fingers made it move, ridiculous - but I was on a tight schedule so I tried to persevere. I think I can say that wasn't going to help my shooting one bit, especially as the loads increase.

 

My thought process is to play around with the 40gr load, so I've gone into the garage this evening and loaded 40gr, 40.5gr, 41gr, 41.5gr

 

I hope I am on the right path, but would be interested to hear any advice if anyone would like to chime in :-)

 

Thanks!

[snakeman]

and the powder is?

[roundyuk]

Apols, VIHT N150

[snakeman]

Unsure if it's any help but I use the 175gSMK with 40.7g of N150 powder. Same seating depth at 2.800. This load is spot on out of a T3 with 1:11 twist and 24" barrel. It's a relatively light load at 40.7g but as accurate as I will ever be...- shot prone with rear bag and Harris pod

 

My initial load testing was done in 0.5g increments...starting with 38.5, 39.0, 39.5, 40.0, 40.5, 41.0, 41.5, 42.0. ..(all seated the same at 2.800)

 

Best group was at 40.5g...from there I narrowed it down and, on my next outing loaded in-between 40.0g and 41.0g in 0.2g increments to tweak accurate load. Finally settled on 40.7g

[roundyuk]

Thanks for the info, hoping this next batch will get me some reasonable results - might tweak even further after this!

[Catch-22]

I too have suffered from 'wobbly bench' syndrome before.

 

Personally, I think you should get prone next time if possible. It's super stable with a bulls bag or sandbags (even bipod!) and will prevent you from 'wondering' if that last group was down to the load or the bench.

[rhhudson]

I would recommend smaller jumps in powder charge. .5g you could easily miss an accuracy node. I jump in .3 and the ones that look promising try either side to see if they are any better.

 

The other point is maybe the rifle doesn't like the bullet weight/powder combination. I don't shoot 308 so I can't comment on this.

 

Stick with it you'lL get there.

[gbal]

Roundyuk,well done for a sensible approach-have a think about some of the suggestions,but you have learned the basic lesson-given that all your shooting will be based on the benchmark you get from testing (whatever the powder bulllet...increments,bullet seating /weather /BC etc) the absolute must have is :Very good testing conditions-very light wind,at most,AND a very steady shooting rest/position (it helps to be honest about pulled shots too-most are not 'flyers")....and you were just unlucky this time. Essential too,is a decent sample -as you get closer to likely load,two 5 shot targets are way,way better than a three shot etc....three shot's typically tell you very little-try predicting where the fourth etc will go....but do check your actual 'field' shooting eg POI from a representative position too,once you sort the technicalities of the load.

We've all expended 10-20 shots and at the end,learned almost nothing (though sometimes very poor loads can be set aside-5shots in 3moa is a no-no).Better to have confidence in at least one outcome- eg 'all shots with xx g powder were acceptable"-you can then fine tune the xx g. Good testing/shooting-now you know why Bench Rest uses massive concrete benches. And really solid rests to give precision rifles a fair work out! :-)

 

Gbal

[Xtrema]

I woukl raise the charge in smaller increments too. I usually increase by .2g but that's just my way of doing things.

Do you know how far off the lands you are seating to?

[snakeman]

Roundy

 

I'm guessing this was your first outing with new loadings? In my estimation you are "on the right path". Starting off though, with 0.5g increments in .308cal will give you an idea of what charge you need to be focusing on. Once you see your 'group' begin to tighten at a particular charge, pay more attention to that group and increment the charge by 0.2g between one whole grain.

 

So let's say your 38g was shi&te, and 38.5 was not good either, 39.0g still poor but, 39.5g a tad better. 40.0g a slight improvement again and 40.5g pretty good. 41.0g roughly the same as 40.5g ...at that point, revert to 40.0g and only at that point begin to work your way up in 0.2g increments until you find the accurate round.

 

Starting off with increments in just 0.2g with a .308cal and shootng x5 shot groups, is gonna be expensive testing

[roundyuk]

Thanks for all the comments guys, great advice! Yeah, I started with the Hornady stated loads and now I am working to closer loads - like you say, could have been pricey starting at 34gr and working up in 0.2 increments. I've already made this batch so I'll see how they shoot (wonder if I can get a firing point tomorrow AM if SWMBO allows!)

 

Xtrema - I am stuck loading at 2.800 because of my magazine, I did do the modified case measure and got 2.932(5) / 2.931 /2.931 / 2.931(5) but like I say, my magazine can only squeeze 2.806 at a push.

 

My primary aim is not crazy accuracy bench rest type shooting, but I want to home load from a cost perspective and at the same time get the best round for my rifle.

[roundyuk]

Or not, its Monday tomorrow, ranges closed on a Monday!

 

Now for the real blag for Tuesday - she says she "booked" the day off to "do something with me"

[Xtrema]

Or not, its Monday tomorrow, ranges closed on a Monday!

 

Now for the real blag for Tuesday - she says she "booked" the day off to "do something with me"

Haha! Yes, they like to do that sort of thing

[gbal]

Xtrema, Short Siberia for a couple of hours ..or...... Gulag Siberia for quite a long while ...it's really a no brainer,and it might be windy anyhow...best 'do something with...'

gbal

[Xtrema]

Xtrema, Short Siberia for a couple of hours ..or...... Gulag Siberia for quite a long while ...it's really a no brainer,and it might be windy anyhow...best 'do something with...'

gbal

I see your logic. I guess mine is tolerant. Living 20 minutes from Bisley helps somewhat

[baldie]

Chuck the bag.

 

Put a bipod on it, and use a rear bean bag. The rifle will recoil/flex exactly the same, shot to shot. The bag won't.

[roundyuk]

Chuck the bag.

 

Put a bipod on it, and use a rear bean bag. The rifle will recoil/flex exactly the same, shot to shot. The bag won't.

So I do normally have a bipod fitted to her, but I was concerned about the stock flex you get on the Howa (although TBH from what I can tell it doesn't touch the barrell unless I really lean into the bipod). Will shoot the next batch from the bipod!

[20series]

1/10 is probably a bit fast for 175gn, have a look for some 190 or 200gn you might find better results. I shoot 200s in mine .. just a thought.

 

Alan

[roundyuk]

1/10 is probably a bit fast for 175gn, have a look for some 190 or 200gn you might find better results. I shoot 200s in mine .. just a thought.

 

Alan

Interesting, I think if I don't have much luck with this next batch that could be an option - a mate of my has a Tikka T3 with a 1/11 and seems to have good results with the 178gr Hornady I am using, but perhaps its just that little bit slower.

[baldie]

You should be fine with a 1 in 10. The only weight most don't like is 155 grain bullets...some will, some won't.

[Hobbit]

I had a similar issue when first loading for my 308 TRG

 

big groups - a key issue for me was not being very good on the bench and the bench and rest - and given that was not how I intended to shoot in the future then I was wasting good trigger time - so I went prone with bipod and rear rest as baldie says

 

next up was finding the right load - 43.3gr N140 for the 155 scenar not that thats relevant here

 

The thing that made a big difference contrary to received wisdom on the TRG was that bullet seating depth mattered - I get a big uplift in accuracy going from 2.8coal to 2.905" - fortunately the TRG mag is a biggie and has no issues

 

I have a long throat in the rifles - my coal gauge measures 2.925 to the lands with the 155's. I have checked my concentricity with a hornady gauge and it is pretty good - about 0.002" so that is not it - just likes a shortish jump to lands. If your concentricity is off - might even more reason to align with lands - I have heard it said you can get a feel by rolling a round over a mirror if you don't have the gauge but can't comment.

 

the final thing that helped (although it might be psychological or related to getting more comfortable on the gun) was getting a good rear bag and rider to iron out any inconsistencies on the recoil - again probably overkill but worth thinking about how the rifle is recoiling - loading the bipod a bit can help with a light rifle in 308

 

I am no expert and apols if I this is obvious - just my experience

[gbal]

Hobbit-you are touching on the key to Bench REst shooting-it is very different to 'loading' a bipod-and each to the method that works for them...and is practicable in their shooting....

With a very steady front rest adjusted,and a good ears back bag properly set up (and that is key) when a BR rifle is fired it should (free) recoil back maybe 2inches -depending on catridge/weight-then can be easily nudged back forward into very near fire position.

This has allowed the current shooting style-instead of waiting for each shot to be made in the same wind conditions,maybe minutes apart,pick what is hoped to be a steady wind window,get of first shot and the next four as fast as possible-maybe 15-20 seconds only,and hope the wind is steady....left port load right remove helps too.....

I don't think any bipod can emulate this speed,but probably does not need to,even in say McQueens.

And of course the BR rifle weights help-as does the option of mild but accurate cartridges like 6BR?Dasher especially on calmish days;40x+ magnification is also possible...It's not a technique that has much in common with field shooting varmint/stalking rifles (which really should only need one shot....but done proper,it is super slick gun handling and minimal disruption to shooting.

The Bench Rest set up should bring out the rig's intrinsic precision-nothing else is likely to quite match up if done well.

 

gbal

[roundyuk]

Depending on the results of this Saturday, I might have a go at loading some 20 thou of the lands, and just hand load.

 

Like I say, I am not looking for bench rest levels of accuracy, but I want to be able to produce decent groups at 100yrds at least :-D

 

This is what I achieved at 300m on the ETR at Century with 155gr RWS NRA, so I can't be all that bad?! (this was from the bipod though)

 

https://1drv.ms/i/s!AhYNTewtlZhXiIMpiV1xffmI-g5jMQ

[snakeman]

roundy

 

Gauging by your first sentence you're already 'tinkering' with distance to lands...and you don't want Benchrest levels of accuracy? The liklihood of this and having just started reloading is you will find you'll get bitten by the reloading bug and, endeavour to achieve the utmost your rifle can offer. This will primarily be yours and the rifles' ability to print a bullet one on top of the other. No bad thing! ..Frustrating; rewarding; fascinating; compelling; addictive...just some of the adjectives.....enjoy the journey!

[Hobbit]

Gbal

 

You are 100% correct - the bench rest results speak for themselves - just reporting my findings - I am empirically a poor bench rest shooter but I agree that with the right kit and technique it is unmatched in group size. I'll take the latter point as a generously supplied excuse btw ;-) Without the kit and wanting to practice as I load develop I go prone - it is certainly accurate enough for me to spot accurate nodes and get sub 1/2 moa at 100 yards - after practice and the fetteling described above.

 

Best

 

Hobbit