Surgeon 308

[Ronin]

After a wait to get two Surgeon Actions into the country for myself (S/A repeater and an XL), I completed the S/A last night.

 

 

I have spent the afternoon making up some test loads as I don't want to jump straight in with my usual accurate load of 46.5g Vit 140 (which was developed for the AW) as its a bit "warm" - the seating depth of this rifle is .050" shorter than the AW, which may make chamber pressures higher (although running the data on quickload doesnt that much difference)

 

 

Anyway - spec

 

Surgeon short action repeater.

 

South Yorkshire Shooting Supplies bottom metal (accepts AI mags)

 

AI 5 shot mag

 

Mcmillan A5 - (ive had this one in store for two years before anyone asks why I didnt go down the Manners route!)

 

Lothar Walther straight taper 1-12 twist tube, finshed at 24".

 

All work done by me - including the inlett as it was done for a Hansen action......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I will see how it shoot tommorrow

[Elwood]

Looks nice Andy, was there much work in changing the inlet from the Hanson to Surgeon?

 

Trigger C&G ?

 

Barrel staying stainless or are you just waiting for James to come back from his mountain goat harassing holiday?

[ajw]

Very nice indeed!!

 

Ronin, What would be the realistic maximum range for the 24" barrel as Im slowly scraping some funds together to get my 308 re-barrelled and was thinking of going for either 20" or 24/26". Would I get away with a 20" barrel out to 1000, or is that too optimistic? I use 43.5gr Vit n-140 with 155gr scenars in a bog standard remmy pss tube and when I do my bit have managed .526" at 200yds. Obviously with these results Im not going to re-barrel it untill its needed, but always trying to find out more info on what to go for.

 

Many thanks, Andy

[silentsoulsleave308holes]

Ronin, What would be the realistic maximum range for the 24" barrel

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I shoot mine with great success up to and past 1000

[nemasis243]

That looks a tool and a half there mate , nice job

[Ronin]

Ian

 

there was a bit to do around the recoil lug, the trigger inlet was totally different - just a slot, and there was no inlet for the ejection port, bolt release and bolt handle.

 

The bottom inlet was originaly set for a BDL, so I had to do the enlarged inlet for the SYSS metal (which is as good as Badger in quality feel and finish I have to say)

 

Like Baldie has already said in a previous post, you can spend twice the time you do on the metal work getting the fit right in the stock and then there's the bedding etc to do.

 

 

Trigger is CG - just love em

 

 

Not sure if barrel will stay stainless or get the same treatment as the action - this by the way is Duracoat parkerised colour.

 

 

Andy

 

 

as Silent says, I would think this will have no trouble reaching 1000yds.

 

I plan to get 155g Scenars as close to 2900 as brass will allow

 

I have a mate with a 20inch barrelled 308, this get to 1k no problem and is exceptionally accurate.

 

 

Start load tommorrow will be 44.5g Vit 140

[TC]

Very Nice

 

Are you painting or staying with stainless barrel?

 

I suspect it would look wicked in black Duracoat combined with that stock.

 

I'm still using your 46.5/n140 load in my TRG set to mag length, works a treat.

 

TC

[ajw]

Thank you Silent, and thank you Ronin. More info taken on board.

 

Regards, Andy

[TC]

Are you painting or staying with stainless barrel?

 

I suspect it would look wicked in black Duracoat combined with that stock.

 

Crossed posts - Parkerised grey Duracoat all over would look equally smart

 

I'm not a fan of the two tone action/barrel but hey. it's not my stick !

[Ronin]

Very Nice

 

Are you painting or staying with stainless barrel?

 

I suspect it would look wicked in black Duracoat combined with that stock.

 

I'm still using your 46.5/n140 load in my TRG set to mag length, works a treat.

 

TC

 

 

Could you advise on your seat depth for the TRG ?

 

Suspect barrel will become same colour as action mate.

[Oly]

Smart gun mate!

[col48]

she looks a treat -.

will be interesting to see how she shoots, but i can not see any problems with that speck rifle,

 

ATB

Colin

[Ronin]

Thanks

 

 

Forgot to say that the scope is a S&B 4-16 PM11 with modified Klein reticule - this ret is the precurser to the P4 fine that is used today.

 

Rings are TPS - as good as if not better than Badger.

 

 

Scope, like the A5 has been in storage for a couple of years, unfortunately it isnt illuminated, no other failings though .

[TC]

Could you advise on your seat depth for the TRG ?

 

Suspect barrel will become same colour as action mate.

 

I'm running 2.933" oal which gives me 0.03" ish clearance on the mag. Tight I know but no deformation of tips under recoil (usually mod or brake) and all ten feed reliably. I never really top up the mag so nothing is hanging around for too long.

 

Running Saami to the Ogive with the Scenar 's was the starting point when the load was worked up but I was getting a slightly compressed load by the time we got to 46.5 of n140 even though the accuracy was the best. Velocity circa 2900 as you know. Dropping out to full mag length improved accuracy slightly but I have not had chance to rechrono.

 

Cheers

 

Tony

[Ronin]

Thanks mate

 

 

I have started out .010" off the lands which gives me OAL of 2.815" (plenty of room left in the mag) but I cannot seat farther out (well + .005") unless I move the throat a little.

 

Will see how we go on tommorrow anyway before I try resolving problems that havent appeared yet

[TC]

Thanks mate

I have started out .010" off the lands which gives me OAL of 2.815" (plenty of room left in the mag) but I cannot seat farther out (well + .005") unless I move the throat a little.

 

Will see how we go on tommorrow anyway before I try resolving problems that havent appeared yet

 

The TRG chamber is of bucket sized proportions !

 

I'm only a couple of thou off the lands at that point by my measurement but it seems to be what suits it best.

 

What brass are you using ? I seemed to be pretty well compressed back at those lengths using Lapua. May just be my inexperience telling of course !

 

TC

[brown dog]

Very nice!

 

If you ever need to find a home for that shite sounding unillum klein ret -first dibs!

 

2 years storage on a stock with a Hansen inlet? Hmmm, I won't go there!

[Ronin]

Brown Dog

 

 

ive had the stock in my home for the past 12 months or so as I changed my mind on the stock for another build (went with a Manners T4a) but thats another story

[Ronin]

Well, I ventured out yesterday afternoon after what seemed a deluge of biblical proportions continued all morning untill 1:30pm.

 

It was still drizzling when I arrived at the farm and set up in yet more wet stuff.

 

Pics will follow later today,as I spent most of last night stripping and cleaning various bits of kit and rifles.

 

 

After shooting another rifle (HS Precision HTR)

 

I set up the Surgeon on the rest and re-fitted the scope boresighting the target at 100 mtrs.

 

Using the start load of 44g Vit 140, the shot went low and left on the board, but not on paper.

 

Cleaned bore and ajusted the scope and I had a strike on paper low and left of the aim point, cleaned again and ajusted.

 

Then started trying the test loads, clening for each shot for the first five only as the barrel wasnt showing much if any copper.

 

Found the following: (All Vit 140 / 155g Scenar, 5 shot groups)

 

44g - ave 2860fps / ES15

 

44.5g - 2901fps / ES15

 

46.0g - 2913 / ES30 (2nd string 2921fps / ES26)

 

46.5g - 2932fps / ES30

 

The cases were all virgin brass and prepped only by resizing and deburring case mouth (no neck clean up or flash hole ream)

 

Accuracy, well under the circumstances (it was bloody wet), the groups were very promising, I had the odd one slightly ot of the main group on two occassions, but it appears to be a "shooter"

 

Smallest group was shot with 45.5g at a .3" I will scan the target and use the measuring programme to verify this as the paper is still drying out. (these were measured holding caliper above the traget so its a guesstimate)

 

Largest group was .7" with 46.5g.

 

 

The aim was to reach 2900fps and get good accuracy, I think the answer is to fine tune around 45.5g and play with seat depth a little - all were seated .010" of the lands - I may move this .005" closer to the lands.

 

Interesting to note that 45.5g is just under a compressed load and the wider groups were shot with the loads compressed, yet many of you have had success using 46.5g of 140 - again this may be down to the chamber being min SAAMI spec so pressures will be a little higher than a gun with a long lead and lower internal pressure than this one?

 

Primers showed central pin strike and no excess pressure even with the higher load.

 

 

Happy with the result, i'll post some pics later.

 

 

read the replies up to Funkys post, without the thread becoming disjointed I will post pics after that last post :

 

However, it was bloody wet when I set up

 

 

 

I took this along with me as I am "evaluating it", good job its a tac rifle!

[baldie]

Looking good Andy.

Interesting that you are getting one out of the group occasionally?

Every walther barrelled gun i,ve come across does this, and its the reason i wont use them, apart from the fact they shag reamers double quick. I,m not pulling walther apart, we use their rimfire liners [excellent] and i know its not a standard thing as other people have great rifles with them fitted. Have you found this with other barrels from walther?

[Elwood]

largest five shot group .7, shocking

[Guest northernchris]

Wank them LW barrels

 

 

 

 

Dave bit of a BOLD statement saying that LW barrels always chuck a shot out of the group.Maybe perhaps load,crown or bedding may have been an issue??????

[Ronin]

Before we enter into discussion over barrel quality and machining, here are a few pics of the rifle in situ on my "steady bench" and a few targets, which ive run through the "on target" programme to avoid allegations of "match fixing".

 

 

Bear in mind this is load development so dont expect too much!

 

 

Still raining

 

 

Now its sunny and raining!

 

 

 

Targets now they have dried out

 

 

45.5g Vit 140

 

 

 

46g Vit 140

 

 

46.5g Vit 140

 

 

 

I also took along the BAT for an airing using the 123g Scenar load

 

This is a typical group and yes it was still raining when I shot it!

 

 

 

Group to the left of the BAT incidentally is from a STiller 6.5x47 with a Lawton tube, guess the rain got to the shooter too with one out of the main group!

 

Back to the discussion over the odd flier with the LW tubes_

 

This I think is down to the barrel not being absolutely broken in

 

Lothar Walther barrels - well this is the third I have chambered and worked on myself, I have used Kreiger, Pac Nor, Broughton and Bartlein as well during my short experience at "plumbing rifles together"

 

 

LW are definately harder to work with, the steel is hard to machine (it bloody hard metal)

 

Chambering - I have a through the spindle flush system set up running at 10 psi or so usually I chamber at 150 rpm, but the LW barrels tend to "grab" for want of a better word at this speed.

 

Ive personaly found that I need to run them at 250 - 300 rpm and go in very lightly, they give a good finish at this speed.

 

LW recommend carbide reamers and high speed incidentally on their tech web site.

 

The odd flier, well 30 or so shots through the barrel under load development doesnt seem long enough to be able to say if the tube is good or not.

 

The .3" from the 45.5g load is certainly good enough, I may take some loaded with different primers and alter load in .3g increment to see if I can fine tune things next time.

 

Dont forget that the only case prep done was trim to length and de bur case mouth, no neck turning so that may have something influence on the odd one out - it may even have been me as it was a crap day and shooting groups with water dripp in down yer neck is no fun.

 

Have to say that the Oehler didnt fail either

[AHPP]

Roedale rifles dont count as we already know they dont shoot

 

None of them?

[foxing2night]

Hi Andy,,

Well mate that was one of the best write up that i have seen for a long time,,,

And your new girlfriend not to bad looking as well

 

Looking at your rifles i would ay that you could give up your daytime job and start turning out some nice pieces of kit????

 

All the best to ya mate,,, That is one top quality rifle

 

All the best, Darrel